'Stormwind Army' Discussion

Melnerag wrote:

1) What is the IC story behind this idea? Is it "Stormwind Army" loyal to the King and answerable to the King, or did all the guilds involved sign a treaty with each other agreeing to aid Stormwind to the best of their abilities, or something else entirely?
2) How should the IC leadership of this group be handled?
3) In what way does your guild wish to participate? (ex: just frontline soldiers, spies and scouts, suppliers and campfollowers etc)

4) Any other point you may wish to bring up regarding this whole idea.

1) Treaties for those who aren't allready obliged to serve the King in times of war. Just standard duty for the Seal, REgiment, Navy etc.

2) Tarvik and I disagree on this point. Tarvik likes the brigadier system with holy brigade, noble brigade etc. With the overall General elected by the Brigadiers from amongst their number. He would then choose his second from amongst the Brigadiers.

I'd prefer a simpler, Combat Arms, Combat Support Arms, Supports Arms system with less brigadiers IC and the overall General being elected by the GMs taking part.

Combat Arms: Soldiers, knights, mercenaries etc.

Combat Support Arms: Scouts, Combat Medics, couriers/runners etc.

Support Arms: Mechanical Engineers, out of combat medics, etc.

3) The Seal's a pretty self sufficient force, in the same way most guilds are. We'll have people to cover several roles within each arm. Or within several Brigades dependant upon which system is used.

Alright. Considering I will not be the one engaged in organizing or leading w-pvp in the end of the day, I think it is best if somebody else takes it from here - organizes final OOC meeting and makes the army. Most of the points have been raised here already, I will just poke Blades to comment.

Any takers?

Given that I have strong views on there being a fixed commander, which does not appear to be broadly accepted, I do not think it would be appropriate for me to take this on.

Sorry for lateness in responding, though I have been reading

1) What is the IC story behind this idea? Is it "Stormwind Army" loyal to the King and answerable to the King, or did all the guilds involved sign a treaty with each other agreeing to aid Stormwind to the best of their abilities, or something else entirely?

The Blades would be pretty happy to help so long as being paid for it! A treaty sounds like a good idea- as we are overall mostly human and would defend SW from external threats, as our 'home' and base of operations.

2) How should the IC leadership of this group be handled?

Blades have captains leading specialisation teams (see below) which could work fairly well in unison with Gen's idea above. I.e; our medics work as 'Support arms', our info gatherers, poisoners/assassin-y types and some mages with Combat support, and the front-line people and the other mages etc, as Combat Arms.

So, say the Combat support section want to know about that specific Horde tower on that hill over there; the Blades could send some of their info gatherers in a mixed team with other guilds' scout/spy types to scout out/do recon on the place.

3) In what way does your guild wish to participate? (ex: just frontline soldiers, spies and scouts, suppliers and campfollowers etc)

We're already structurally split into specialisation 'teams' as part of the guild set up; at present, we have front-line soldiers, healers/medics, mages & arcane users, information gatherers (essentially spies/scouts etc), the only that'd likely be of limited use in (most) battles is our team of assassination/poisoning people. Unless a tactical take down/poisoning of an enemy leader/general is required in a storyline.

We also have a few non-combat 'tradesmen' and people with trade skills that could do things about camp, like our glorious gnome chef .

4) Any other point you may wish to bring up regarding this whole idea.

Ooc communication and clarity throughout. Absolutely necessary to avoid the issues that cropped up with the Kalimdor campaign. This means; clear lines of communication, and probably one overall 'leader', even if it's just for ooc reasons. Otherwise crossed wires, miscommunication and all sorts can happen.

Melnerag wrote:Alright. Considering I will not be the one engaged in organizing or leading w-pvp in the end of the day, I think it is best if somebody else takes it from here - organizes final OOC meeting and makes the army. Most of the points have been raised here already, I will just poke Blades to comment.

Any takers?

When and where would you like me to host such a meeting, Exa?

Can also be done differently. Like making a new IC and OOC draft based on what was discussed in this forum, and PM it for comments/approval to the GMs. Or just calling for an OOC meeting, or using next Stormwind Community meeting to discuss it?

When is the next meeting, we can arrange it there or make a thread here with the draft everyone agreed upon? That's to put it up for discussion though.

Next meeting is in early october. So we probably should:

Discuss some more here, and then use a SW-council meeting to discuss the rest. (end IC meeting early, and proceed with OOC discussion?)

Next Council meeting sounds good, we can arrange and gather the people there and then for a discussion OOCly regarding everything. Plus its really much more flexible to discuss in person. And for those who do not know when/where it happens, 21:00 - Stormwind Keep on Tuesday.

PS: I will also raise a point in my next post that I just recalled.

Right, will make this short and simple. The RP PvP as I see it currently is far from what it used to be, I know this has been mentioned before in this thread but I need to stress this again.

We have all seen how things progress during the campaigns. There is no build up, there is no strong RP around it, there is basically a location in which you go to fight and then RP for an hour later on before returning to your stuff. I certainly hope that with this we can turn it around, that by the end of this we would have a structure and a plan that we can put to use to turn things that would have much more RP than the actual PvP.

In a single word; Immersion. That is whats needed, strong build up, strong plots, strong RP and not just PvP. In my opinion, it would be much more fun to have PvP just as a filling between the RP and not the other way around. In the end, people and their characters need to have a strong feeling about what they are fighting for and what they are doing in the location they have went to.

But only time will tell, I believe that there is the will for this to happen. Let us see if we can manage to get the means as well now.

It did happen last time, actually, but only for the Disciples and Stormwind Regiment.

Valestrion wrote:It did happen last time, actually, but only for the Disciples and Stormwind Regiment.

Not only for them, assuming 'last time' means the PoC campaign. There was some of us who did all of our daily RP at the established bases. Sadly, quite a few people seemed to prefer only showing up for the battles and then skipping on everything else.

It seems like when you fight these battles its just a one of thing. The winners RP "woop!" abit and the losers sit about a fire going . But what is missing is the depth, why did we engage the horde there, what does the win/loss mean. I dont mean you cant use a ring in the next fight either, what I would want is before the battle to know we are trying to achieve objective a,b,and c. (like trying to take a bridge, if we get it we are to hold it and then push on towards a military out post. If we cant get to that, then we reroute towards objective three, a cross roads or something). So after the fight I can sit about the fire and with others analise what happened, feel that our regiment took that bridge or nod in respect to the ones who did.

IE more story less bang

*High fives Drustai* We had a fun time though! Not together, but that isn't relevant...

Apologies, Drustai. I was referring specifically to units of the Stormwind Army, rather than any individuals or those from other nations.

I've missed most of yesterdays discussion due to Drama. So my post might be uninformed.

I am trying to make it as simple as possible:

a) Every guild may be included OOCly in planning&organization of it wills, or it can just let somebody else represent it, or 'stick' to another guild.
b) Every guild ICly has to be contacted independently about army-formation, they can however choose to band together (union of noble guilds, union of holy guilds)
c) The one taking initiative for organization of a particular campaign is also the one leading it ICly. Unless he chooses otherwise. He can then appoint assistant-'officers' to help him run the show
d) During peace-time, somebody is chosen to conduct the training and military-peace-timeRP
e) During campaign, guilds stay independent unless they choose to band together into 'brigades'. Randoms can choose to follow a particular guild/brigade
f) Effectively, there can still be 'actual' brigades since the Leader may appoint people to be in charge of the camp, or in charge of patrols etc.

In my eyes this is the simplest way to do it, without getting mired down in details. It still provides opportunity for good build-up political role-play, and army-RP.

d) During peace-time, somebody is chosen to conduct the training and military-peace-timeRP

Everyone who has initiative to host military themed events during peace times is welcome to conduct them, be it training or anything else.

Melnerag wrote:I've missed most of yesterdays discussion due to Drama. So my post might be uninformed.

I am trying to make it as simple as possible:

a) Every guild may be included OOCly in planning&organization of it wills, or it can just let somebody else represent it, or 'stick' to another guild.
b) Every guild ICly has to be contacted independently about army-formation, they can however choose to band together (union of noble guilds, union of holy guilds)
c) The one taking initiative for organization of a particular campaign is also the one leading it ICly. Unless he chooses otherwise. He can then appoint assistant-'officers' to help him run the show
d) During peace-time, somebody is chosen to conduct the training and military-peace-timeRP
e) During campaign, guilds stay independent unless they choose to band together into 'brigades'. Randoms can choose to follow a particular guild/brigade
f) Effectively, there can still be 'actual' brigades since the Leader may appoint people to be in charge of the camp, or in charge of patrols etc.

In my eyes this is the simplest way to do it, without getting mired down in details. It still provides opportunity for good build-up political role-play, and army-RP.

This wasn't my understanding of the conclusion. It was more like this:

a) There are a number of brigades, initially Holy, Noble, Regular, Mercenary and Death, although this isn't necessarily a final list.
b) Guilds or individuals join the brigade they think suits their style best, e.g. Disciples will be joining the Holy Brigade, while the Dieudonné Seal and House Mistmantle may consider the Noble Brigade more appropriate.
c) Each Brigade chooses a commander by whatever method it wishes
d) There are also three cross-brigade specialist corps for individuals who have a particular interest in RP style. Initially, these will be the Medical Corps, the Intelligence Corps and the Navy.
e) The peacetime army comprises the Regular Brigade. The Brigadier of the Regular Brigade is effectively the head of the peacetime army.
f) Other brigades are reserve brigades who will need to be persuaded to join a campaign according to criteria particular to that brigade, e.g. the Holy Brigade will wish to be persuaded that the cause is righteous, while the Mercenary Brigade will want to be paid.
g) For a campaign, a general is appointed from amongst the brigadiers. IC he is appointed by the King, but OOC he is elected by the brigadiers.
h) The general is the IC commander for the campaign but is not necessarily the organiser of the campaign. The organiser may or may not be the general, depending on the RP situation, e.g. if a someone who RPs a street beggar wants to organise a campaign, it's not going to be appropriate for him to become a general all of a sudden, so it might be more appropriate that he organises it from the position of an informant feeding information to the general.

Most significantly, there was no agreement for guilds to operate outside of brigades.

as valestrion has it works for me. Just complex enough for some tention and simple enough to work.

The Death Brigade probably needs to be broadened a little. It was included for Death Knights to have somewhere to fit in, but there's no reason why it needs to be restricted to Death Knights. It's effectively the opposite of the Holy Brigade. I just wonder, though, whether the Stormwind Army should include a unit whose methods are effectively opposed to what many people in Stormwind stand for.

We have discussed it with the cartel and they are going to take their guild in a new martyr gnome regiment.

TBH the Death Brigade will be us and any other DKs who want to come with us. Happily take cultists ect but it is dubious that it should be allowed, unless the king has a "royal secret warlock service"

Sorry Vale, as said I was too absorbed by drama solving! Your summary sounds very interessting.

About Death Brigade, why not change it into some sort of 'black sheep' brigade, of deathknights, warlocks and those others who do not fit and only fight for SW rarely or when........properly motivated?

Because that does not fit what our guild is and if warlocks tried to fight for the king they would be hanged 5 mins later. Also being concidered as an after thought is bad for moral (even for the dead )

Lexgrad/Dreth wrote:Because that does not fit what our guild is and if warlocks tried to fight for the king they would be hanged 5 mins later. Also being concidered as an after thought is bad for moral (even for the dead )

Doesn't Varian acknowledge the warlocks' services in some quest or announcement somewhere?