RP guilds and poorly chosen char names

Jayse wrote:
And Gruff.. Analeigh :3

Ahh, the Analeigh and Avery jokes we used to make on skype...

Spoiler:

I'm kidding, I love you really Dave. <3 Haha XD

Hehe. Anal.

I'd also like to say I didn't vote because the options even today with clear head aren't that concise or fitting.

I've not voted. Though, simply put I don't think that people should simply judge the person and ignore them entirely, much less a guild for accepting them. More often than not, the person is actually interested in RP and you can guide them enough to get easy things such as naming sorted.

Heck, we had Ezio in the OTS for a while, unfortunately he was a case of being beyond help name wise, but we gave it a shot!

Just a case of being less judgemental I suppose, even if it can be hard from time to time.

Not going to vote, because the poll's pretty harsh whatever your opinion.

Honestly I try to reserve judgement, and I'm sort of astonished at the people saying they'd look down on a whole guild if there's a few people with 'off' sort of names in them.

As has been said, there's quite a lot of instances of people accidentally choosing names that coincide with NPCs and occaisionally names with different meanings in other languages. Especially seeing as humans/worgen, for example, have in general fairly standard european-ish first/sur names, so it's pretty unavoidable that people will come up with duplicates. These sort of cases I honestly don't think anyone has any ground to judge or whatever, it happens and it's not any sign of being a bad rp-er or a bad guild.

In a seperate category you have the Athas-s, the Jaina's and so on, or the direct copies of characters from other games (such as the Ezio, as Ledgic mentioned). Those are a bit different, but again, more than likely new rp-ers who aren't entirely up to speed with the do's and don'ts. In that sort of case education's always preferable to exclusion or mockery. Although there'll always be those that'll resist or ignore help when offered, in which case there isn't much can be done other than politely explaining why they can't remain in the guild, and removing.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that judgement and exclusion is a pretty shitty way of dealing with this issue where it crops up. If a guild had NOTHING BUT oddly-named or famous-named characters I'd likely look at them slightly oddly, but outside of that I don't really think it'd change my opinion too much, the main thing is HOW that guild rps in general, the overall standard and behaviour of its members.

Nayan wrote: No, I don't think many kids would be given those names because of the then prince's birth. On the contrary. That phenomenon hasn't occured even once, with the lore characters. Take a walk around all of Lordaeron and tell me how many Arthases and Uthers you see among NPC's. None. They are unique. Therefore, adopting the name should also be out of line.

Isn't this a bit far fetched? You can never take the game as such a reference due to the limited size of the game. There are very many "unknown" farmers and whatnot out in the world that you will never ever see, but they existed. And there are chances that people will have named their children after someone like Arthas pre-going evil ofc.

Still the game itself, you can't compare anything too. It lacks in size and population to the actual lore.

Yeah, Nayan, that assertion really is a bit of a joke.

Blizz don't care enough to integrate social trends into the game, or offer WoG on the issue. But if you so much as glance at human history to you'll see a names popularity skyrockets in the few years after a Royal's birth. Taking the average age of player characters, and the number who seem to come from Lordaeron, I'd still assert that based upon 'the way humans work' there'd be countless Arthas's walking around.

I doubt many humans would want run around with his name now. He's done some pretty bad things. Not that I would claim that it is possible to change your name in the warcraft setting, but nothings speaks against it.

"My name is Kael'thas"
"Like our former prince, who betrayed us?"
"Yes..."

I'll leave the RL example away this time.
There are quite a few important lore characters where the opinions of the people can differ.

With the concept of having a character with a similar name to a lore character I could live with it. I mean, How many Daniel's, Mark's, John's, etc are there in your street? I know about 5 Daniel's in mine me being one. So why would that not happen in Warcraft? the same goes to parents naming their children after a celebrity for example; A character named Anasterian was named after the Sin'Dorei king by his peasant family who happen to be extreme royalists. As long as the player is not claiming to be a descendant or anything I have no problems with it.

If people are worried about how their guild looks on the armory guild roster while trying to run an RP guild then there is a problem, Your characters do not have the internet to go and look at other peoples names. Same goes if you see someone with the same name from a film/TV program... there are no cinemas and Eastenders in Warcraft.

It would make an interesting situation if a character were named Kael'thas or Arthas prior to their betrayals, and now had to hide their name or change it entirely.

Nothing's stopping people naming their children Adolf, so why should it stop WoW parents naming their children Kael'thas or Arthas? I can understand the stigma around those names but I don't think it's all that important ...

Shaelyssa wrote:Nothing's stopping people naming their children Adolf, so why should it stop WoW parents naming their children Kael'thas or Arthas? I can understand the stigma around those names but I don't think it's all that important ...

I think it's more of a question of wanting the first association when you give your name, to be with someone who did something bad not too long ago. It doesn't matter if it actualy makes a person act differently, but they'll think something less than positive about it.

And as long as I can't play the game in a practical fashion when I zoom in to see the faces, haircuts and facial hair to keep characters apart, I'm going to use the name as a substitue for the whole package.

Trave wrote:Isn't this a bit far fetched? You can never take the game as such a reference due to the limited size of the game. There are very many "unknown" farmers and whatnot out in the world that you will never ever see, but they existed. And there are chances that people will have named their children after someone like Arthas pre-going evil ofc.

Still the game itself, you can't compare anything too. It lacks in size and population to the actual lore.

That would be a valid argument, in my eyes, if we were discussing the phenomenon "being limited". The thing is, you don't see it anywhere. At all. Sure, when I turn off the lights, I don't see as many things, but that doesn't "prove" that my room is filled with pancakes and elephants just because I can't see what's in it. You need an indication to reach that conclusion, and the only place I see such an indication is rl references, nothing from inside the game or lore. The game/lore's limited presentation room would excuse a limited display of the phenomenon, but it still can't explain the absolute lack of it.

I'd still assert that based upon 'the way humans work' there'd be countless Arthas's walking around.

Sorry, Gene, I consider that to be more of a joke It's a typical mistake to attribute "the way humans work" into an imaginary universe (mostly dominated by non-humans even), instead of trying to adapt to the fantasy world itself. That's why you see so many white knights and mary sues around. They "transfer" what they consider to be "right", taken from other stereotypes, instead of creating a character that agrees with the background. I don't see what a "glance at human history" has to do with World of Warcraft. Human history has no orcs, no dragonflights, no portals and resurrections. It has no taurens, no Sargeras, no Earthen Ring, no druids that turn into bears and crows. Don't confuse Blizzard's marketing policies of ooc easter eggs and ooc popular references for an entire game (which includes non-rp realms in its majority, even) to get more teens to buy it (oh look, there's a Harris Pilton waving), with actual lore and roleplaying. You don't see them including "Harris Pilton" or "Pinkus Floyd" in the lore, even if they are npc's. Surely there's a reason for it. Think what the reason is.

Also, who let Kaleil in?!!! (wb lad )
I'd rather not extend to that, as it'd keep going sidetrack-offtopic, but as a brief reply to Kaleil's post: I'll accept the "your chars don't have internet / can't see the names" argument on two occasions.
1. If we were discussing my char's view of said names. But we aren't. Nayan frankly couldn't care less if your human is named Arthasdk. He's still a lesser, not worth breathing. The loa said so. Sotiris, on the other hand, is facepalming if your human is named Arthasdk, and you immediately lose a lot of ground in gaining appreciation. I don't owe it to you, you have to earn it, and you just made it harder on yourself. Tough. ;>
2. If we get a way to physically live in the game. Cause, until then, we are still ooc people -playing- the ic game, and you can't completely cut out ooc influences. Furthermore, I don't see why you should in the first place. Wouldn't that mean that "it's ok" to go explicit 100% in the presence of (or even with) someone who you ooc'ly know is 12 years' old? Doesn't that also fall under the "ignore ooc info when you are being ic" tag?

Would be happy to further discuss this, but I fear it goes offtopic, so >.>

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:

Shaelyssa wrote:Nothing's stopping people naming their children Adolf, so why should it stop WoW parents naming their children Kael'thas or Arthas? I can understand the stigma around those names but I don't think it's all that important ...

I think it's more of a question of wanting the first association when you give your name, to be with someone who did something bad not too long ago. It doesn't matter if it actualy makes a person act differently, but they'll think something less than positive about it.

And as long as I can't play the game in a practical fashion when I zoom in to see the faces, haircuts and facial hair to keep characters apart, I'm going to use the name as a substitue for the whole package.

I know, and I completely understand that, but a lot of people name their kids Adolf in real life. It doesn't mean they're naming their children after Hitler, and it would be the same in game too. People wouldn't think differently of characters named Kael'thas or Arthas because logically speaking, there'd be plenty of, or at least a few, Arthas's and Kael'thas's around anyways. I could also use Osama (Bin Laden) as an example too. Nothing is stopping people naming their kids Osama in real life, since Osama/Adolf/Kael'thas/Arthas all have their own meanings that have nothing to do with the fact they're a terrorist/racist/betrayer/lunatic.

Nayan, maybe you don't see any Arthas's or Kael'thas's or whatever running around because Blizzard want to keep those names unique? And also, there are NPCs called Malorne and Whisperwind; so you still see major names being featured in the game anyways. :p

I'll give you Malorne, but I don't see what Whisperwind is proving. It's a family name. Of course more than one people has it. It... wouldn't be a family otherwise... O.o

The entire point is that you just don't see Malornes running about. For every "2 Malornes" you find, I can show you hundreds and thousands of names that are not doubles. There's a reason for that.

I never met any kids named Adolf in the countries I've been in. But I do remember it being a very bad faux pas if you misspoke a name that was close to it (for example Dolf). More than the average "omg so embarrassed".

The Whisperwind npc is a last name, to my knowledge having the same last name as an important lore character is also a bit iffy because of the implied family connection. For Malorne, I'm pondering the the cross species naming (or can Malornestag transform into Malornenelf?), if that has a more "in remembrance" feeling.
I'd get a different feeling from Varian Wrynn the human warrior running around than Varian Wrynn the goblin warlock.
Or between the blood elf claiming to be Kael'thas Sunstrider and the night elf claiming that name. I'm not sure who would be worse. Especialy if seen IC.

I don't understand ... so why can't people share the same first names? I don't see any realistic reason against it. I think the only reason Blizzard hasn't named NPCs after major characters is because they want to keep those names unique so that they seem more profound and important or whatever...

I don't think the problem is to name characters after npc's, but naming them after very important npc's.
I see the character Kaelthas, I think about the former prince Kael'thas Sunstrider.
I see the character Timothy, I don't think about:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Weldon
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Worthington
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Daniels
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Jones
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Holland
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Clark
or
http://www.wowpedia.org/Timothy_Cunningham

What I see is that Timothy is a good name for a human or a forsaken in different professions.

Spot on. Don't know how else to explain it, really.

I still don't understand what the problem is. So what if you think of Kael'thas?

So what if you name your kid "Fuckme"?

"You can take someone to the water spring, but you can't make them drink the water", I guess. There's only so much one can explain and show.

There's a huge difference between "Kael'thas" and "Fuckme" though :p.

No, there isn't. Both are now "so what". If you want to play with words, the game is played both ways.

Spoiler:

Since they exist in human world, where is the reason that should keep me from naming my chars that? Think very hard about that. Because, by adopting a "so what" stance, there is none.

Shaelyssa wrote:I still don't understand what the problem is. So what if you think of Kael'thas?

That's a bit like running through the city while masturbaring furiously. Sure... it's a natural thing if you really think about it, but some people are still going to react negatively >.>

I'm not trying to play a game ... I don't understand why it's a problem if somebody's name reminds you of a major character? "Kael'thas" is a very probable name for a blood elf, so it's ok to name a character that, while "Fuckme" is clearly the exact opposite of what a blood elf name is ... if you're not a Wayfarer stripper or something that is. Stop being so Nayan!!! :P