Gilneas, The State and Control of the Kingdom (Massive Spoilers)

So, I just wanted to gatehr some opinions from the player base, as many of us know or have seen Gilneas is.. vast and blank. Empty houses, an empty CITY, an empty mine, an empty everything. Limitless possibility for a guild such as my and Gun's <The Greymane Era> to populate and use. My conern is this, lorewise the state of 'who controls the region' is VERY shifty. On one side we see the Forsaken taking control, on the other we see them driven out by the 7th legion and the Gilenas Liberation Front. At the end of the Forsaken chain it is suggested that the Forsaken are now at a stalemate with the formely mentioned organizations.

Now, my statement for this discussion is the following.

"The Worgenbase of Players should be free to return and rp in Gilneas, as if they have the most control whilst regularly sparring with the Forsaken in an ongoing invasion. Prompting internal rp and new areas for the Alliance and Horde as well as presenting an World RP-PvP battlefront for both sides at the wall."

Discuss!

Everything that means making roleplay outside of Stormwind is great in my eyes. The city is empty. I say go for it! I'd love to visit sometime and get the proper Gilnean feel as a visitor.

hmm good idea indeed

Sounds very interesting, more World PvP roleplay is surely needed. Alliance and Horde roleplayers have been separated for too long. However I wonder if it might not be too out of the way for Alliance roleplay since it's sandwiched between Silverpine and Hillsbrad.

Having a whole city to work with is great, so long as you can get as many Worgen guilds to fill it up. Good luck in dragging them out of Stormwind!

Having played through the forsaken questline (which is chronologically the latest point at which Gilneas is visited I guess), I get the impression that the situation there at the moment is very much like the vietnam war (while it was going on, that is. It is yet to be seen if the forsaken will eventually consider it too costly as their historical counterpart did).

Huge, well-equipped war machine (Horde) against an organized insurgency (Worgen), backed behind the scenes by material and special forces from abroad (Stormwind).

The worgen would theoretically be in control of everything south of the wall, but have to constantly operate in the hidden since the forsaken war machine have the advantage when it comes to striking at targets in the open. They may control Gilneas, but the threat of the forsaken denies them the freedom to do anything more than hide in the countryside and set up ambushes. Anything else would be an invitation for the forsaken to take them out.

I'm not sure to what extent civilian RP in Gilneas would make sense. The whole place is still very much a warzone, on top of the local population being cursed.

Let's not forget that outside the Cathedral in Gilneas City there are a whole lot of tents and Alliance banners.

Which gives the impression the 7th Legion dared to actually set base there.
Which means so could the worgen, without "hiding".

Atleast my opinion.

In my opinion? Blizzard are not done with Gilneas yet, just like they are not done with Arathi Highlands and so much other stuff aswell. We might or we might not see any development in future patches, though I hope to see some development down the road rather than the "In 5 years after 10 expansions you learn what happens with [x]." and at the same time, I do not. Since I know Metzen has a raging hard-on for turning Stormwind into a Orcish Disney land.

I think it would be nice to see worgen players be able to play in their city. But yes maybe it need to have a feeling of War (maybe there will have pacthes with more story ligne) and organise with Forsaken world pvp to keep the "in war" atmosphere.

I'd like myself to be able to visit Gilneas as a draenei (yes and make a reportage).

Short answer: Look to Baghdad circa 2006 (But worse) and you'll have your answer.

Will likely come up with a longer response in a while.

I still say go for it. Create some RP there and see where it takes you. No matter if it is a warzone (and that can easily be RPed anyway), the City is still empty. Making RP there can only, and only, be good. There is no reason not to take the opportunity. There really isn't. As for it being a warzone, yes but there's still camps there as mentioned. There's no reason people can't live in the city while having a warfront closer to the gate and create WPvP there. Can only benefit the community with more RP so.

Go go! ^^

Julia wrote:I still say go for it. Create some RP there and see where it takes you. No matter if it is a warzone (and that can easily be RPed anyway), the City is still empty. Making RP there can only, and only, be good. There is no reason not to take the opportunity. There really isn't. As for it being a warzone, yes but there's still camps there as mentioned. There's no reason people can't live in the city while having a warfront closer to the gate and create WPvP there. Can only benefit the community with more RP so.

Go go! ^^

This is true but only to a certain point. If possible opportunities for RP should be exploited, I agree. However, we must remember that like the lore provides the basis for a character story, the lore also provides an atmosphere. Which is exactly why there is a reason not to make use of this opportunity.

See, the entire lore, the situation and the story of Gilneas simply breathes tension, danger, struggle and despair. Be it more predominant on the side of the Gilneans or the Forsaken does not matter, it is there for both. The problem with this is that it might limit the RP you have in Gilneas. You won't have pleasant pick nicks out in the woods, you won't merrily fish at that stream. No, you, or rather your character, will always have to embrace that tension, that ever present danger, that struggle for life and the despair.

It also grants many an opportunity, but we should never forget this fact. Gilneas is not a place that is save. Not the city, nor the countryside. The city is left behind a ghost-town and any attempted re-population should keep this semblance alive for the sake of lore. The major activity in the city is the Seventh Legion (who are, allegedly the creme de la creme of the Alliance military and thus not your average person), it would be only logical for some semblance of martial law to be in effect.

It is also my personal opinion that there would be Forsaken stragglers left behind enemy lines, perhaps even infiltrators, it seems only logical in my mind to keep that in mind too.

In conclusion: Roleplaying in Gilneas will put your character in a certain niche if you choose to adhere to the lore. Which you should.

I agree, and that's exactly that which can make RP there interesting. For picnic and stuff like that, you can just stay in Stormwind anyway. Or Darnassus.

I don't think anyone was planning to really RP a merry happy bunch there you know People are very much aware of how it looks there. But again, RP there is far from impossible. Quite the opposite. The atmosphere there I think would actually enhance RP all the more as it is a direct invitation to WPvP events. Not to mention, even if there is war or chaos, people still feel connected to their home, their country. I'm sure that the Gilnean people would actually want to fight for their home. Set up a community there while the opportunity remains I say. That is how server-lore is born. People doing things a bit outside the box.

Currently from what I gathered there is a very, very, crap truce going on between the Forsaken and Gilneas. Neither side is making any drastic efforts to leave their side of the Greymane Wall and push inwards, but they are still skirmishing around that general area. I would say that the Greymane Wall area is kind of like the Demilitarized Zone between North & South Korea - If either side sets foot over their part of 'the line' they can expect to return in a matchbox.

Also remember that no WPvP can actually take place inside of Gilneas itself due to phasing mechanics making Horde who have completed the zone invisible to Alliance and those Horde who have not done it.

Julia wrote:I don't think anyone was planning to really RP a merry happy bunch there you know People are very much aware of how it looks there. But again, RP there is far from impossible. Quite the opposite. The atmosphere there I think would actually enhance RP all the more as it is a direct invitation to WPvP events. Not to mention, even if there is war or chaos, people still feel connected to their home, their country. I'm sure that the Gilnean people would actually want to fight for their home. Set up a community there while the opportunity remains I say. That is how server-lore is born. People doing things a bit outside the box.

I'm just stating the obvious, sometimes it is worth stating.

As I said too, RP there offers opportunities aplenty, but people must acknowledge that they will have to stick to this niche while in Gilneas.

As for the server-lore, I disagree about how server-lore is born. Server-lore is born by touching the walls of the house, not by stepping outside the house. It is born by letting Blizzard decide which villages or cities look like this and which look like that. It is born by the denizens of the server making use of what Blizzard has given us within reasonable bounds without profoundly altering what Blizzard gave us.

Edit:

Perhaps true, Gunnel, but I would not say it is a truce, it is a stalemate not a truce.t The Forsaken are invading in that other BG again, which indicates they want to establish a beachhead. As for the Greymane wall, we can't be sure but it seems to hint that there is a battle going on there which we don't see.

With your reasoning we wouldn't have amazing things on our server like SGE, or the different Councils and so on. Going outside the box and coming up with something different and new is what creates nice things. The lore Blizzard makes, as I see it, is merely a push in the back for roleplayers to use their own imagination and come up with something nice for their server. After all, it is we who pay to play this game. Not Blizzard. But each to their own I suppose

As for people following a certain niche. While that sounds all nice and dandy, one can't tell people how to RP really. While I think most reasonable RPers would try to follow a certain guideline as to how RP would be done in Gilneas, not all will. Nor can you, or I, force them to. It's RP Everyone is really free to do what they want to have fun. So saying someone -have- to stick to a certain niche is quite pointless.

But as stated before, on the topic at hand. It can't hurt RP in any way. So I say give it a shot, Anaei. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. But it is definably worth a try.

With your reasoning we wouldn't have amazing things on our server like SGE, or the different Councils and so on.

Yes we could. As far as I am aware I merely pointed to changing the world in a physical manner, a bit of an unfortunate example would be KoA in my mind. As far as I am aware SGE does not do this. The Dwarven Senate finds its basis in the lore-entity of the Dwarven Senate (nearly wrote Roman Senate there xD). The Stormwind Council is kind of like a city council, which Stormwind may or may not have. It can also be seen as a more friendly name for the House of Nobles, depending on your interpretation of the Council. I will admit that changing the world in a physical manner is not the end of my objections though.

The lore Blizzard makes, as I see it, is merely a push in the back for roleplayers to use their own imagination and come up with something nice for their server. After all, it is we who pay to play this game. Not Blizzard. But each to their own I suppose

I prefer to see it as the framework within we can work. I also believe it is a framework we should try not to touch. We can add every now and then (The Chapter would be a fine example of this) but we should not alter the framework for fear of the whole thing collapsing on top of us. Yet, as you said, to each his own.

As for people following a certain niche. While that sounds all nice and dandy, one can't tell people how to RP really. While I think most reasonable RPers would try to follow a certain guideline as to how RP would be done in Gilneas, not all will. Nor can you, or I, force them to. It's RP Everyone is really free to do what they want to have fun. So saying someone -have- to stick to a certain niche is quite pointless.

You are correct. Neither you nor I can force people to RP one way or another, we can however urge them to. It is not unreasonable to suggest people RP like this. Urging people is exactly what I am doing. I won't hold it against you if you won't accept that there's a certain atmosphere in Gilneas, well, that's not exactly true. I'd probably be a bit disappointed but I will never, ever, hold this against you in interacting with you. I won't boycott someone over it or whatever. I will merely be disappointed as I don't think you're sticking to the lore.

Yes, I believe the lore to be sacred with regards to RP

But as stated before, on the topic at hand. It can't hurt RP in any way. So I say give it a shot, Anaei. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. But it is definably worth a try.

Indeed, Anaei, you should. ...While adhering to the lore, of course

However, changing the world in a physical manner when it makes sense, due to the fact there are tons of RPers there, well. I don't see anything wrong with it. When done in small proportions like KoA did. And I'm pretty sure that Blizzard would, if they had the time to, change the world accordingly on each server, depending on in what direction RP goes. But at the end of the day, we know that Blizzard doesn't really give a rats ass about roleplayers. Which is why server-lore I think is almost more important then Blizzard lore. It's what makes every server special and unique. And it is what makes DB so amazing ^^

Though, this is very much off topic. Again I just felt I have to defend myself because people always try to use KoA as a bad example without having all the facts :S

Julia wrote:However, changing the world in a physical manner when it makes sense, due to the fact there are tons of RPers there, well. I don't see anything wrong with it. When done in small proportions like KoA did. And I'm pretty sure that Blizzard would, if they had the time to, change the world accordingly on each server, depending on in what direction RP goes. But at the end of the day, we know that Blizzard doesn't really give a rats ass about roleplayers. Which is why server-lore I think is almost more important then Blizzard lore. It's what makes every server special and unique. And it is what makes DB so amazing ^^

Though, this is very much off topic. Again I just felt I have to defend myself because people always try to use KoA as a bad example without having all the facts :S

Last off topic post by myself too then.

First off, I believe the lore provided by Blizzard to be infinitely more important than server lore. Yes, I understand that it allows for less flexibility but it is a fact that I accept.

As for KoA, I know that KoA 'rebuilt' at least parts of Stromgarde and evicted all mobs which were not friendly to them. I consider that fact to be good enough to allow me to use KoA as an example of how I believe things should not be done.

Anyway, as I said, this is my last off-topic post. If you want to continue the discussion though, feel free to open a new thread about it or send me a PM, Julia.

Thank you for all the well thought replies, I had faith you would all see it such. I didn't want to rush into things and then face "LOLHORDEOWNUALLQQ" glad to see we get the go ahead!

Again, thank you!

Bit of a late Response, but anyhow- I agree with Antistia. Under certain circumstances, a community can and should be built there. The war goes on, over most of the area, and the people in there, no matter from which side, are to be either crazy or under the constant feleing of war all around them, nervous and the likes. But that is just my opinion.

Believe me, we won't be stepping up shop, putting on our top hats whilst resting our feet and sipping tea.

It is a warzone.

And a war zone is interesing to Rp