Death Knight Proclamation

Due to the death knight struggle with numerous enemies, we are proclaiming ourselves a neutral faction between the Horde and Alliance.
Tomorrow Vladimir Molotov will declare New Avalon, and all the land up to and including Tyr's Hand to be that of the Brotherhood and in fact the Knights of the Ebon Blade. Diplomats, ambassadors and negotiators are invited to listen in, offer suggestions and speak on behalf of their race / faction / team / guild. It will begin at 21:00 with a hopefully large gathering of Brotherhood guild members.
P.S
Any massing of members of a certain faction will be seen as a direct threat to -our- welfare, you will be removed or killed.
Much love, Ephitos.
P.S.S
Death's Breach is the location.

((Nothing against you or anything. But I do belive that the Knights of the Ebon Blade are allied with both the Alliance and the Horde, and I'd say that no player, or player faction, can say that the full organisation is now Neutral with either faction.))

Marogg/Helanie wrote:((Nothing against you or anything. But I do belive that the Knights of the Ebon Blade are allied with both the Alliance and the Horde, and I'd say that no player, or player faction, can say that the full organisation is now Neutral with either faction.))

Aw Really? I thought Darion didn't take sides so that was a neutrality in itself? Hmm.. Do you think if I simply said the Brotherhood is neutral? We are a sub-faction.. Hmm.. What you think?

((how does this work for hordies, you get a translator on msn?))

A translator is being negotiated for as we speak!

EphitosDeathKnight@hotmail.com

I guess via msn, anybody wish to be the Horde counterpart?

Uhm.. I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here and say that you didn't really think this through, eh?

Anyhow, good luck. - Would've helped out if my DK wasn't so bloody inactive.

I'v been thinking alot about this, I just forgot to post it here.

"Due to the death knight struggle with numerous enemies, we are proclaiming ourselves a neutral faction between the Horde and Alliance."

That is the exactly definition of the Knights of the Ebon Blade.

My apologies, I know it's been said but that's just my view.

Ephitos / Amarachus wrote:

Marogg/Helanie wrote:((Nothing against you or anything. But I do belive that the Knights of the Ebon Blade are allied with both the Alliance and the Horde, and I'd say that no player, or player faction, can say that the full organisation is now Neutral with either faction.))

Aw Really? I thought Darion didn't take sides so that was a neutrality in itself? Hmm.. Do you think if I simply said the Brotherhood is neutral? We are a sub-faction.. Hmm.. What you think?

(( Questing in beta has shown that some DK's..Whoever that alliance hero version was fights for the alliance now. His own words ))

http://www.wowwiki.com/Knights_of_the_Ebon_Blade
Well not to go against anything you say, but in the wikki page the Death Knight hierarchy seems well dead, seeing as there is no Lich King I would assume that Mograine wouldn't really care anymore what his "Free" death knights do.

Crap, beta is ruining everything for me xD

Being a neutral faction is accually a rough ride! You have to be neutral with every faction, and that isn't just the racial factions. It's also mostly every faction within those. You'd have to ask for support from the leading councils before you'd be able to get help from them. And if you have to move through a certain area you'd have to ask for permission to operate in that area.

And as a side note, Wiki isn't a supportive site.

The various Death Knights fighting for their respective 'home' factions (Thalassian, Kolitra, plus the Death Knight NPCs you see fighting for the 7th Legion/Kor'Kron in ICC) is probably going to make this whole thing go tits up. Once enough people see Death Knights slitting their faction chums throats they'll just decide "Sod it" and start hacking down on any Alliance-raced ones they find.

Knights of the Ebon Blade were technically neutral to start off with anyway and New Avalon already belonged to the Ebon Blade as a whole, deciding that the 'Brotherhood' now own it as their personal clubhouse would make a fair few other Ebon Blades roll their eyes.

Don't forget that there is no "fair few".
As far as I am concerned we are the only successful operating death knight guild on Alliance and maybe Horde.
We aren't death knight NPC's, we are a sub-faction of the Ebon Blade with a more balanced outlook on the war mongering that occurs between the Horde and Alliance. It is our choice to proclaim any form of freedom.
Wikki is Blizzard lore. So uh.. Yeah it is. >_>

I don't see how your reply answered my post.

I'm not replying to it ?
You who have condemned <Brotherhood of the Hold> since the start have never even said "Good Luck".
All your comments towards the Brotherhood hold negative opinion and reason to why it shouldn't work, you never offer a solution, an idea, Instead you simply state where the faults are.
So thanks for your input, but this will not effect my opinion, as far as I see <Brotherhood of the Hold> is the only active Death Knight guild so for now there will nobody to roll their eyes at us, and <Cult of Shadow> who had some form of agreement with <Ebon Hold> ( Can't remember exact name ) will be honored by the same agreement as us. We belong to Knights of the Ebon Blade, so have the full right to exert our authority in New Avalon.

You're stating that there is no DK guild (to your knowledge on Alliance and Horde) and as such there is no one to "roll their eyes". But what about individual DKs? Lore-buffs? or just RPers asking questions?

Once again Ephi I read something by you, a seemingly interesting idea, but not something for me. But you're throwing the old "... this will not effect my opinion" thing. Welcome opinions and then say "I won't listen". Seems kinda pointless to discuss any RP in that case.

I usually put most of this down to my failure of understanding people's needs to pick apart role play, to pick apart lore, or to decide that things need to "work" or "fit" on each tiny level. Without seeing the whole, or other's ideas. Also the fact I know little/nothing of Alliance side RP (which tends to be a bone of contention often on the forums).

But I don't understand furthering a reaction/standpoint of "I won't listen" when people say things don't seemingly fit, and explaining why.

Wiki isn't a "good" source for anything. In WoW or IRL. It is, however, a good start point for discussion.

Stop right there.
Now, how many people hang out in New Avalon? How many people use New Avalon? Yes I go by what I know. The thing is, those tiny details are not required , everybody will always disagree on something so confirming tiny details with the RP community is kind of pointless especially as if a general consensus was asked for everybody would disagree with each other.
As already stated.

My " I Won't listen" point of view refers to people who continuously are negative with no actual reason to be negative. Which in my eyes is Gunnell.
And yeah I admit that I'm wrong at times, and that I get heated because it's hard to accept twenty posts that argue against your idea.

This will be one that will not get affected by the opinion of other people, The Brotherhood holds Deaths Breach and will hold New Avalon ( under the Knights of the Ebon Blade) banner. Whether people accept it on a broader scale will not be my concern, if I can offer RP to death knights around a moderately large area I will.
I'm going to discuss all this in game with people rather than on forums, less writing to do..

Ephitos / Amarachus wrote:I'm not replying to it ?
You who have condemned <Brotherhood of the Hold> since the start have never even said "Good Luck".
All your comments towards the Brotherhood hold negative opinion and reason to why it shouldn't work, you never offer a solution, an idea, Instead you simply state where the faults are.
So thanks for your input, but this will not effect my opinion, as far as I see <Brotherhood of the Hold> is the only active Death Knight guild so for now there will nobody to roll their eyes at us, and <Cult of Shadow> who had some form of agreement with <Ebon Hold> ( Can't remember exact name ) will be honored by the same agreement as us. We belong to Knights of the Ebon Blade, so have the full right to exert our authority in New Avalon.

Oh, I do but you choose to simply mask anything negative that isn't showing your ideas in roses as "Non constructive" and (As Gruff stated) "Its not going to change it's my opinion" and so forth. I'll post something if I believe it will be half useful such as a suggestion or critism and a two word "Good look " done to boost a post count isn't in my opinion. If you so believe that I have a personal grudge against you then you'll notice I haven't posted one in any other thread here, ever.

There are individual Death Knight roleplayers such as myself who have their characters as aiding the Alliance and still remaining part of the Ebon Blade - Not every Death Knight RPer is thus a part of the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood do not 'own' Death Knight RP nor does being a Ebon Blade guild give you the authority to decide on every matter or thing that pops into your head.

The best soulution would simply be to say; "Oh, we're going hang out there because we're Ebon Blade" and not "Okay, now our private clique is claiming we as our own. We own it now. Its ours" - That is what myself and various other people/guilds have done and it worked fine.

At this point I'm going to be honest and say this an event that is going to happen whether YOU Gunnell have enough Constructive criticism to fill every page of the bible with or not. I don't decide for other Death Knights and never did I imply that. You can aid who you want, I decide for MY guild as long as the majority agrees with me, and yes they do.

That second piece of what you wrote is completely irrelevant to anything. If you have opinion, please share it, if you have no fact to support your opinion, post on the under 12s section.


Also, where did I state that what you said was Non Constructive?

Alright..

Knights of the Ebon Blade were technically neutral to start off with anyway and New Avalon already belonged to the Ebon Blade as a whole, deciding that the 'Brotherhood' now own it as their personal clubhouse would make a fair few other Ebon Blades roll their eyes.

Ephitos is not claiming it to be the personal clubhouse of the Brotherhood, nowhere does he exclude other Death Knights, in fact, Ephitos reaffirms the control of the Knights of the Ebon Blade as an order over the territory of New Avalon. He adds to this, in essence, that the Brotherhood is stationing itself there and shall remain neutral. Perhaps word choice may have been a bit vague but this is what it amounts to if I am not mistaken. This is also very much the same as what The Ebon Hold used to do. TEH used New Avalon as their base of operations too and made use of the facilities there.

The various Death Knights fighting for their respective 'home' factions (Thalassian, Kolitra, plus the Death Knight NPCs you see fighting for the 7th Legion/Kor'Kron in ICC) is probably going to make this whole thing go tits up. Once enough people see Death Knights slitting their faction chums throats they'll just decide "Sod it" and start hacking down on any Alliance-raced ones they find.

Point in case being the Goblins, I suppose? When looking at it all objectively, yes it's going to be harder for them to retain their neutrality due to a lack of trust, this doesn't make it impossible as you seem to suggest. In fact, this being challenging can offer great avenues for RP if you ask me. However, this is assuming the Knights of the Ebon Blade as a faction do not have a complete and utter breakdown in lore terms as an order, there are non-neutral Death Knights at the moment but no complete and utter breakdown of the order has occurred as far as I know.

There are individual Death Knight roleplayers such as myself who have their characters as aiding the Alliance and still remaining part of the Ebon Blade - Not every Death Knight RPer is thus a part of the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood do not 'own' Death Knight RP nor does being a Ebon Blade guild give you the authority to decide on every matter or thing that pops into your head

To quote myself:

He adds to this, in essence, that the Brotherhood is stationing itself there and shall remain neutral.

The best soulution would simply be to say; "Oh, we're going hang out there because we're Ebon Blade" and not "Okay, now our private clique is claiming we as our own. We own it now. Its ours" - That is what myself and various other people/guilds have done and it worked fine.

Which is effectively what he did but you seemingly jumped to conclusions.

So thanks for your input, but this will not effect my opinion, as far as I see <Brotherhood of the Hold> is the only active Death Knight guild so for now there will nobody to roll their eyes at us, and <Cult of Shadow> who had some form of agreement with <Ebon Hold> ( Can't remember exact name ) will be honored by the same agreement as us. We belong to Knights of the Ebon Blade, so have the full right to exert our authority in New Avalon.

The Cult and The Ebon Hold indeed had such an agreement, the Cult would be allowed to make use of New Avalon (and not be allowed to attack DKs/other there afaik) and would in exchange offer support against the Scourge. We use it very sporadically though. About the exerting of authority, I would keep any official authority within the Brotherhood itself (as in punishments etc). I don't think policing it will be necessary, it should not be.

Wiki isn't a "good" source for anything. In WoW or IRL. It is, however, a good start point for discussion

When concerning common knowledge it is a decent source, when there are source references it is good. Some things are less good than others but over all it is the most reliable source apart from picking apart every book you have about WoW that you can find.

As for wikipedia, some have bad ideas about it, some good. It is a decent starting point, and a 2007 study* has actually found that experts rate Wikipedia's reliability higher than non-experts. Personally, I use it as a starting point before diving into a book written by a professor from an Ivy League University. Usually Yale.

*http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/11/8296.ars

Also Antistia, I spoke to Rasonal and nothing for certain now, but that Cult would be interested for cross-faction RP?

As much as I understand, Ephitos, that you won't care what anyone tell you, I hope you also understand that people are going hate you with passion if you openly claim a place. Even when you don't directly claim something that happens. And I'd know, I've been hated for years for what I did with KoA. Even if I don't remember directly claiming Stromgarde, and I hope I didn't directly do so; I can right now say that going out and claiming something is one of the worst ideas ever.

I'll direct to this thread, where the same thing is being discussed. And you can see yourself how people get when you claim a place. Even if it is the most deserted place ever:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=15309203152&sid=1

I'll also quote myself in there:

"I don't think claiming places is ever a 100% bulletproof option. Sure, you might see guilds and organizations whom have "claimed" places, but you have to understand that those guilds and / or organizations have worked hard, for many years, to gain that certain respect. Because it is not going out saying "this place is now mine" which makes people respect your area as "yours" (and I say yours very lightly there). Its the hard work you've put in, which has made people respect you and play along with you eventually. Being kind and friendly, and having a lot of patience is what is needed. Because no one is every really going to just play along when you simply decide over day that a certain area is yours. Heck who knows, the current community might even of worked hard on that specific place and have another view on it then yourself."

I read the thread, and thanks for your piece of advice,
If I haven't made things clear, the whole open invitation is for people to talk to me about claiming this place, to raise questions, I posted the thread first to hope for some attendance. If say <Argent Crusade> showed up and had questions and queries to why we should run New Avalon, that would be great, because in the end we could sort things out ICly and create RP.

I'm not looking to create the Brotherhood empire, I'd like Death Knights + anybody else affiliated with us to be able to go to a place (Can't go into Acherus) and RP with us and the people around us. For example I know that the Crimson Flame have strong activity there and our claim should provoke them enough for a skirmish of some sort, I'm merely attempting to create RP for not just my own guild but for others who wish to "visit" and comment, be it Horde or Alliance. That's why I have to be neutral because even though New Avalon is completely useless to everybody, the Horde could see this as intervention.
In the end, thanks Julia , the thread on the forums was very interesting, just a misunderstanding by the looks of things.

I'l Edit the first post, and if anybody has Objections to the RPing concept of the Brotherhood "running/guarding/patrolling" new Avalon, I'd be happy to hear the reason why we cannot have a small chunk of land, that nobody except a few PEOPLE use.