Collective responsibility, an analysis regarding attitudes and roleplaying

Saihna/Julia wrote:I can't help myself, I must discuss!


And about the alt execution thing - Yes I do think it would lift some of the bad feelings that the good guys have now and then that they never get cut some slack and win something. I for example plan to have my own cultist being caught to give some people opportunity to practice on judge skills, and practice some really harsh punishments. I think this would help a lot.

I am not one to judge you, or to judge how you viewe the game. But if 'winning' ICly, is in the essence of enjoying your game, Then you will never truely enjoy it, as you will never allways win. This is the feeling I am getting from your posts- you somehow place, on your majour characters, the ICly wining as the majour essence of the joy you get from the Roleplay in the game.

I don't mind not winning. I find it sort of fun to get caught in trouble on my characters and end up battered up etc. But what I mean is that, the "evil" people always get away. One way or the other. And after the 808753463 prison escape, people on the "good" side might feel like they don't get anything out of it anymore. That it is just a repeating pattern over and over again. THAT, is something that can make the game very unpleasant, yes.

I agree with Mordazan, the Chapter are not villains as such. They are the classic example of Chaotic/Good, yes?

But anyway, let's not derail the topic. Gahalla was only using the terms lighties and villains in order to separate the two groups, get her point across and make it easier to raise the discussion.

Now, I must admit. I've only briefly scim read.. Some stuff.. As I honestly, struggle at reading large posts. I think I might have a mild case of AD:HD.. Or whatever that things called. A short attention span, yeah that. Anywho. The main rules I stand by whilst Rping are.

Respect the person i'm roleplaying with. Consider their point of view.

Consider how my charecter is feeling, reacting, what condition he/she is in. If a huge orc roared at me, and threatened me. I would feel -some- fear. So surely that could translate into how my charecter reacts, instead of smugly shrugging it off because I didn't comprehend the actual action first, before reacting.

Offer my advice if I feel it could be useful to the person, be delicate with my choice of words. If they decline it, Apologize and move on. Even if I know something doesn't make sence lorewise, it isn't my place to just walloftext rant. Offer delicate and friendly help.

Give everyone some time in the lime light and remeber what my charecter is good and bad at, I am not the hero of every situation. This isn't a one player game. I do struggle at that. Alot. Vectoria's so arrogant I end up power-playing occasionally .. Gotta watch that. ^.^

Remain humble, try not to get caught up in things IC. Remeber that some people maybe easily offended by certain things, or take things to heart more, or even shrug things off easier then I do. Level-headness and shiz.

Discuss?

Saihna/Julia wrote:
Accepting the fact your character is not a God and may be caught and punished. And even though that goes the other way around as well, we still got to keep in mind as I said before: In a world like WoW, the good will always have the upper hand. The evil is sort of the side-kick in the story, creating the events. But in the end the Good will win (else there will not be a world left to play in). That is at least how I see it.

I can hardly disagree any more. I am not surprised that this point of view comes from someone RPing on the good sides of things right now

No, bad folks do not see themself as "side kicks" or just "minor plots in the Holy/Good questline". We do not see ourselves as second ranked RPers just because we provide something else than a standart holy paladin - if anything, that holy paladin is a pure side kick in the evil character's own storyline!

And you can't win RP. You can win OOCly by getting a lot of good RP. But you can't win RP.

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I think that the oppinion that evil RPers should just take more consequences is a major problem on the server. This huge focus on the bad guys should accept that they can be put in jail for days and days and face a trial which will force a major change in their RP upon them - while the good guys can basically get away/be saved heroicly/escape evil in the last minute etc. etc.
And if anyone pulls the forbidden "realism" argument on me, I think that it would be reasonable to argue that the Sphere has people that well within reason could stalk people like council members, members of the church, guards, and so, assassinate them at the right time and place, using overwhelming odds, dark magic and so on, only to disappear without a trace, using summonings etc. etc. etc.
So lets leave the realism argument at home, for now

I think this huge focus on evil folks having to take consequences, calling them Godsemoters/players if they don't want their character left to rot/die/exiled/banished, harms the interaction between good and evil roleplayers. Evil RPers don't want to interact with lighties because they know the lighties will want to make them face some sort of consequence which will harm their RP - lighties don't want to RP with evil RPers because they're angry that the evil RPers don't want to take the consequences. It could just as well be the other way around, and has been in single events, but empirical evidence suggests that it is usually as described above (I'll refer to my last post for further elaboration).


P.S. I'd like to refer to Nithel as quoted in my signature. She put it very well, atleast I think so

"And you can't win RP. You can win OOCly by getting a lot of good RP. But you can't win RP."

In actual fact, that right there is brass and tacks of it all. The very essence being that we should be looking at (the concept) of good and evil roleplay as two sides of the same coin. Alot of 'major' Roleplay (in terms of large events and complex intruiging plotlines) is born from some sort of conflict.

With the natural every day RP you see about town. The Blade, people joking and having lighthearted conversations, sharing a sunset ect ect..

The major conflict is that of 'good and evil' within a faction and that of the Horde Vs Alliance on a global scale.

Now i've thought long and hard about this and read the opinions people have laid out, taken into account my own view on Roleplay, the minds eye aspect and past accounts and stories that have existed.

It all boils down to one simple message. We are here to have fun, we wish to be somewhat unique as both characters and guilds/concepts and there is room within the community for pretty much anything you can think of within the warcraft lore and given setting.

What we need to be doing now, is aknowledging this and the most important thing is to now start respecting the ideas and opinions people have and wish to see in action in RP. Were pretty much there already and on a personal level I love being a part of this community, but there is a point to address that we need to learn compromise on all sides. We need to be able to address the fact that if there is -too- much ongoing constant conflict, that indirectly affects certain players/groups/guilds playtime in the matter of having to constantly resolve these conflicts.. the veil of enjoyment slowly ebbs away.. and people naturally become tired.. and the tiredness slips to annoyance.. and then intevitibly aggression..

The vital point (I think) to address this is to start respecting all parties both on an OOC and IC level. Drop -ALL- the OOC indiferences and motives and ease out of the corners of the realm we may be defending tooth and nail.

Were all here together.. through compromise, understanding and plain common sense I feel is how we could move forward and continue having a great deal of fun.

On a personal note regarding compromise and conflict RP. Beleive it or not, it's actually ok to have your character lose and it is a shit-ton of fun. Given the fact (mainly alliance side) I know most of you and i'm -slowly- getting to know more of the horde community, you will know that even though Jayse is a secret agent he has probably ended up on the reciving end of more beatings, kidnappings, deaththreats and generally 'in the shit' then most people.

Why?.. Because I fully beleive in compromise and the fact that in good nature and form you give and take. The more you show willing in that your character will lose a situation, the more people will be inclined to actually let your character get one up on the adversary.

For example:
The most recent instance of this was a couple of night's ago. The Cult infiltrated the Cathedral Catacombs. There was a skirmish and the cult gave up, and asked me if we wished to interrogate them. So we did.. and in doing so I saw an opportunity in that Jayse was left alone with 3-4 surrenderd forsaken while the rest of the alliance present were having an arguement in the corner and not covering his back.. so I offered the chance for the forsaken to kidnap Jayse. Which they did and he got tortured to shit.. and it was a great deal of fun and sparked off a rather intruiging chain of events that may come to light soon.

As you can see, compromise, understanding and simply respecting each other is the key to having a great deal of fun and also negotiating awesome things your character could acheive.

A little longer then my usual input but again, my thoughts on the matter.

Cheers!

Couldn't agree more, well written Jay.