Death in Roleplay

Can you kill someone IC without their OOC permission first?

I'd never really thought about this until a couple of days ago, when an attempted robbery happened on my bar (The Slaughtered Lamb) in Stormwind. Roughly what happened, was these two pandaren pirates walked into the bar, and attempted to rob the place. After a very short fight, me and Helmut drew our guns (Me a shotgun, Helmut a machine gun), and I told them to leave or I'd fire the gun (which was aimed at the largest pandaren's head). He attacked, so I fired, and at that moment I received two whispers from the pandaren, saying that I couldn't kill without an OOC permission, and I signed up to these rules when I started RPing on this realm?

I've never heard of this rule before, and I think It's ridiculous personally, but I want to know if other RPers think that you can kill without OOC permission or not, and if there are some sort of rules that I should have seen when I first joined this realm.

Theres no specific rule that states that you can't kill someone in Roleplay, even with or without their ooc permission. That rule is a community-held rule, one we stick to for good sportsmanship amongst ourselves.

Now, for the situation itself, Its the pandarens fault, and its his responsibility for the situation. You have him a fair warning, Icly, which he ignored. You were quite within your rights to fire at him. It would be down to him to decide how to continue past that point.
Perhaps making an agreement with you that the gun fires, but no shot comes out, or it misses completely due to you shaking, or just that it didn't fire at all.

Rhia \"Shadow" Nyoma wrote:Can you kill someone IC without their OOC permission first?

No, you can not force RP death upon another character, despite the fact that in some cases it would seem appropiate to do so, in my opinion at least.

Rhia \"Shadow" Nyoma wrote:I'd never really thought about this until a couple of days ago, when an attempted robbery happened on my bar (The Slaughtered Lamb) in Stormwind. Roughly what happened, was these two pandaren pirates walked into the bar, and attempted to rob the place. After a very short fight, me and Helmut drew our guns (Me a shotgun, Helmut a machine gun), and I told them to leave or I'd fire the gun (which was aimed at the largest pandaren's head). He attacked, so I fired, and at that moment I received two whispers from the pandaren, saying that I couldn't kill without an OOC permission, and I signed up to these rules when I started RPing on this realm?

He's abusing this unwritten rule, imo, and should accept the consequences by dying. I've seen this happen alot over the years. People having a gun to their head or a knife to their throat and still trying to fight, which is retarded. But they do it because "You can't kill me, lolz". So in this particular case, he was wrong and you were right.

But let's say that you don't think this rule should be in place and let's say that you're walking down the street in the Mage Quarter when suddenly some masked fellow walks around the corner, gun aimed at your face and fires. Would you agree with this? Losing your beloved character that you've spent so many hours building a story to?
Or what if you're caught committing a minor crime, say theft - which is nowhere near a death sentence, and the judge despite this sentence you to death without you having a word in it?

pandaren pirates

Obviously where it went wrong.

Theres no specific rule that states that you can't kill someone in Roleplay, even with or without their ooc permission. That rule is a community-held rule, one we stick to for good sportsmanship amongst ourselves.

Pretty much and ICly and OOCly the Pandaren should have known gun to head is bad, so unless he was stupid enough to try and shove the gun away from his head and get maybe or maybe not shot in some other place... Yeah.

Though it is a case of more sometimes you can't kill someones char off becouse -they- don't want their char to die, that's more a thing.

But yes if someone whispers something like that you can usually just try and agree on a stalemate with guns maybe missfire? Or somesort..

Still technically his char icly agreed to be killed when he attacked after being told to walk away or be shot... If we look at things logically of course.

People tend to give other people a chance at evading death most of the times some second choice just in case of these things (Sometimes though it doesn't make sense *cough* Repeat offender criminals *Cough* ). But that's how it is.

Meh, Plot armour vs Op emotes.  Do either and you are a bad rper really.  Did you try and talk the pandas down or fight them with fists and blades so both parties get to RP? I hate plot armour and hate RP that tries to take life despite the fact that there were hundreds of moderate options available that would create RP for all.

Then again, That kind of RP and these kinda threads always seem to be more to punish than to get any intelligent consensus.

ETA, that seems kinda harsh, I speak generally rather than your incident exactly, well kinda....

<3 so you dont get mad

siegmund wrote:

pandaren pirates

Obviously where it went wrong.

Hey, screw you, wolfboy! Who are you to say pandaren can't be pirates?!

Thelos wrote:

siegmund wrote:

pandaren pirates

Obviously where it went wrong.

Hey, screw you, wolfboy! Who are you to say pandaren can't be pirates?!

I'd personally rather use them as cannonballs.

My 5 DOLLARS:

You aimed at his head. Asked him to step back. By doing this, you offered him a way out. He stepped forth. You shot, aiming for his head. Here's the deal though: He should have dodged/dodged partly or just had his buddy pull him out and find him a healer. You were in your right to fire your shot. He was in his right to survive it and plot for revenge.

The story as told by you leaves me with very little sympathy for the guy. He agressed in the face of almost certain, extreme violence, but couldn't handle it. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think this post should come as news to anybody either. Act logical or die. Noobs. RAGERAGERAGE.

(ps: grow some balls if this offends you)

Domovoi wrote:

Now, for the situation itself, Its the pandarens fault, and its his responsibility for the situation. You have him a fair warning, Icly, which he ignored. You were quite within your rights to fire at him. It would be down to him to decide how to continue past that point.
Perhaps making an agreement with you that the gun fires, but no shot comes out, or it misses completely due to you shaking, or just that it didn't fire at all.

/thread

Indeed, the rolypoly fur-cannonball failed. His own fault, put on ignore and RP on.

siegmund wrote:

Thelos wrote:

siegmund wrote:

pandaren pirates

Obviously where it went wrong.

Hey, screw you, wolfboy! Who are you to say pandaren can't be pirates?!

I'd personally rather use them as cannonballs.

...

... I -

...

You win this round.

Get it? Round? Because pandaren are fat?

YOHOHOHOHO

Should this be in the 'Game related' section? along with all the other 'death in roleplay' topics?   

While I've no issue with similar topics being discussed across multiple threads, I am going to move this to the game related section.

it is impossible to kill anyone without ooc approval, or you'll see him again in an hour in SW

Myeah, sounds kinda like the type of mistake I made myself with some characters in the past. Getting on nerves of someone who you know is a crazy person and has no problems with killing people, then being all "wtf plz no!!" when the said character pulls-out a lethal move that would kill your character fair and square. Hence why I guess you could be nice and attempt to shoot him/her/them at first and see where it goes from there.

...of course, that can lead to the them being the douchebag you suspected them to be in the first place, by countlessly avoiding all your attacks, just because the person doesn't want their character to get hurt even in the slightest, or more specifically, can't stand the idea of "loosing" to someone.

Of course, with all that out of the way, someone killing you from the blue like in the example mentioned above, is a bit too silly for my taste. But a potentially very dangerous situation (if not near lethal) should be expected when your character keeps on pushing the limits way too far. Or at least at that point you can just ask the person to either stop being a jackass and playing along with them proper "rules" or just ignoring them till they disappear.

If you're an aggressor, you've got to be like Drustai: Always have a way out. If the calumniation of events lead to your inevitable demise, it is your fault. You played the antagonist, you asked for it. If you can't deal with that; Don't antagonize people.

The above was addressed to the awesome Pandaren pirates.

Thelos wrote:
Get it? Round? Because pandaren are fat?

YOHOHOHOHO

Also!

some dictionary wrote: 10.
a. A single shot or volley.
b. Ammunition for a single shot or volley.

Pandaren deserved to die, when you walk into a situation where you know you might be killed you sign the contract of approving death to your character.

Remember people, those who draw the gun, is prepared to be shot by the gun.

Let it be said, the concept of Pandaren pirates is one of the best ever, and our server can do with more crimes, bank robberies, church hostage situations etc.

As I was there I must admit that the pandaren in question was pretty annoying. We gave him good chances and openings to leave but would not take them and instead fight like a jacked up Superman when like 5 people attacked him at once. The whole situation was basically that he wanted to be badass, hes plans failed and still he wanted to be a badass. Now, I don't think that just killing him would have been the best thing but the guy had no idea when or how to lose.

Depends. I personally strongly believe that you can't kill a character without permission. You could have shot them in the legs, mutilated their limbs or anything that doesn't imply the end of other people RP.

Don't get me wrong, by the looks of it they were real douchebags, and they were villans, which does are supposed to keep the rules about action and reaction much more seriously, which those two didn't.

Still, i personally wouldn't have killed them if they didn't clearly answered yes to my whispers.

If they were power/god emoters, however, slaughter them mercilessly  

I signed up to these rules when I started RPing on this realm?

No, but it wouldn't hurt having respect for other people's effort in their long development. Not arguing about this accident in particular, just saying people would appreciate that you'd be mindful of their toons, even if they happpen to fight.

Well, he could have done an emote which would lead the bullet to his shoulder instead, or barely hitting the side of his neck leaving him a way to get out of the situation harmed, but not dead.

For example: "as he sees she moves her finger towards the trigger flinches, the bullet instead goes to the side of his neck/shoulder."

This would work. I mean seriously. It is more of a creativity issue than anything. It might be a strange emote but he didnt need to take a bullet to the head if you fired even though you aimed for his head.

So his whisper was really just unecessary in my opinion. There are ways he could of retreated and taken the shot, while still surviving.

As for the character death and such etc. It should be up to the individual character, but if he reacts to a jackass like that I would prefer to not deal with him in the future due to this.

Helmut wrote: Now, I don't think that just killing him would have been the best thing but the guy had no idea when or how to lose.

(this post isn't directed at you helmut, but it was just a good quote to go from)

How do you actually kill someone that doesn't know when or how to lose?

Because people keep saying, He didn't need to die, He could have taken a bullet and gone down but survived, he could have done all sorts of things, just like the people shooting the pandaren.

But how do you Kill someone that doesn't want to die?

What emote do you make that precludes that the pandaren is actually dead?

What level of aggression is good enough to "kill" someone; how long are you allowed to kill someone after said aggression, and most importantly, How do you kill someone that doesn't allows himself to die?

Which leads to the next-set of questions; Whose rules do you feel is fair to follow? Or if I rephrase that question: Why are you allowed to set your definitions of warranted aggression onto him, but he is not allowed to put his definitions onto you? This is the most important question.

Because ultimately if two people follows a different moral code, one person is always going to be the one that is power-emoting/god-emoting. And most usually both roleplayers will be doing it.


What if I decide that an insult with words is warrant enough to pull my gun?
What if I in character ask you to apologize or I will shoot you in the head.
What If you don't apologize?
Are you now dead?

What if I declare that you give me your wallet or I'll shoot you in the head, with my weapon drawn.
and you refuse.
Are you now dead?

What If I tell you, you are under-arrest, and I will shoot unless you submit and taken to jail, while my weapon is pointing at your head. for a crime you might now have committed.
and you decide to try and run.
Are you now dead?

All these examples provide a way to not die for the people targeted. but does that mean I can actually kill them? If I do shoot you in the head, are you then dead as it is within my rights?

What if You refuse to die? Are you god-emoting? Or am I?



what if the bullet doesn't kill you. Is that enough reason for me to follow and shoot again? Or should I give you another chance to flee for every shot fired? Because I am in my right to kill you, since you didn't back-down. Am I being the ass here or are you? I know i'm in the right.


The only conclusion that is possible is this:

It is impossible to Kill another player without OOC permission.(the permission doesn't have to be given gladly, or happily, but it has to be given) Since if you declare the death of another player it IS Godmoting.

/e fires his gun, the bullet speeds out of the barrel and hit %T in the forehead, before the sound reaches %t's Ears. He is now dead.

Is the only way you as an RPer can make another RPer Die.

/e fires his gun at %T; the bullet races towards his forehead with the expectation of deadly bloodshed

Can only be resolved by the victim. and that is giving OOC permission if it does end in death.

The only alternative is this: If you don't like the rules the other person is playing by, Don't play with him. But know this: that doesn't make you right. That does not make the other person Wrong. It just makes you have different ideas of fun in RP.

I agree with Amaryl completely!

The server may be small but dosen't mean we are forced to play with one another, if someone comes to me and emotes something i am not okay with, by all means i can whisper him and politely say that either he changes the emote or i'll do it for him before i walk away. Not because i despite the persone but because i do not want to be part of that session, and as someone that pays 15EUR each month for login it is in my right to make those kind of choices, about with whom and how i can have fun with.

/e fires his gun, the bullet speeds out of the barrel and hit %T in the forehead, before the sound reaches %t's Ears. He is now dead.

/em's helm deflect the bullet

/em shields himself with magic

/em is actually hit on the shoulder

that's how i'd avoid this emote before walking away from the session! i dont feel guilty to counter god emoting if someone pretend to enforce me his way, when RP is about compromise on the attending people's own view of FUN.

FUN, people, this game is suposed to be FUN and if you aint having it something is going wrong with the way you manage your time in this GAME.

If you don't like the rules the other person is playing by, Don't play with him.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I would agree with nihilia and Amaryl on this too.. INfact.. monny herself ended up being in a possition similer to the pandarian in question and did have a gun to her face.. and yes a shot was fired.. monny managed to clip the gun high enough for the bulit to cut threw her scalp and lost some hair but she was otherwise just about ok.. Having been on both sides of this scenario in diferent situations.. I can saftly conclude

If your actions and refusal to back down leads to the potential situation of your toon being killed.. its that persons fault.. dont want your toon to die.. know when you have pushed things to far that can lead to death..

Yes asking ooc permission should be done.. but additionaly one should apply common sence