Discussion - Worgen Offspring

I meant for this to be a discussion but I'd really first just set out my own opinions as a basis but I'd really like to see your opinions since they might seem more logical than mine!

Okay, so first off I want to talk about whether worgen can have children or not. As far as I know there is nothing in lore to suggest they do or don't. But, considering that Blizz often change lore for convenience rather than anything else, It'd be more convenient for them to be able to have children after the curse.

Conception
I don't think there's really anything to suggest that they would not get pregnant, so I am sure that could happen a lot since contraception is available but probably not popular or heard of for most of the population.

Would the baby be cursed too?
In my honest opinion I think this is very likely. You share blood with the baby, you share everything with it. Since the cursed is passed on through fluids I am comfortable with this assumption since it lives off your fluids. However, we do live in a world of magic, and it's a curse after all. We can't assume it's all to do with science because it could very well be that it just isn't cursed because magic, and that would be the only excuse for it.

Would the baby shift at the same time as the mother or be harmed?
It's been under assumption for a long time between a lot of players that after so much time Druids cannot shift forms as it would damage the baby. Here, we're dealing with a curse that possibly both the parent and child have but that doesn't necessarily mean they change at the same time, or if they that it will even be painless. Your body is shifting, but that would create more space for it, wouldn't it? In my opinion, there's no reason for the baby to be moved so much when you shift or be harmed because the chest area is barely affected during transformation, unlike other limbs like legs and arms.

Next we'd have to find out if it would shift with the mother. If the mother has transformed due to stress or anger, as worgen often do, I wondered if the baby would feel that emotion somehow. I did a little google about this and the only logical answer I could find was "When you are stressed it increases your blood pressure which increases blood flow to the umbilical cord which causes you're little one to freak." So this is a maybe, play it how you want. I would personally go with this idea.

The only issue I see with shifting is when you turn back into a human. What if you shifted out of anger and your baby did too because of this? You can shift back when you life, but how does the baby know to do that too? It has little control at that age as to what it is doing. You could very well shift back into a human and the baby would be cramped due to the size change it went through with shifting. Essentially, you could suffocate your baby.

If born, would the baby be a feral worgen?
Again, purely because of convenience I'd say no... However, and I'm really sorry to have to bring this up, books like Twilight had babies that would start to eat the mother at a certain age (At least that's what I recall. Can anyone check on that for me?) Either way, if the baby was feral it would be like a puppy rather than a monster. Feral Worgen are clever at times like humans, but they also have that instinct like a wolf so they act like wolves and understand a lot less. If we look at it like a wolf pup we could see it wouldn't tear out of the womb with claws out and ripping things to shred, but it'd understand who it's mother is and instinct would let it be born and just follow around the mother like a pup would their own.

I assume a parent would be wary and take a potion or chomp on some moonleaves now and then. But, because magic you can just say that the ritual affects offspring. After all, we have no idea and this is all based on assumptions and general logic.

Conclusion
My conclusion is that they can be pregnant, the baby would be infected, but for convenience I would not have it feral upon birth. However, this might be because if I was RP'ing it out myself my character would be taking potions and eating moonleaves, but that still leaves the question of another ritual.

Soo... This is all based on my assumptions. I have no lore to back me up and the only evidence of facts I have is from a forum, so feel free to add in your links too for any evidence you can acquire from RL or Lore. I really want to hear what you think since I feel it's important for the whole community to agree on a certain way. Although I feel like people can RP this any way they want to.

Baby forum thing:
http://forum.baby-gaga.com/about273157.html

Interesting post. 
 

Off the top of my head.

Drinking worgen blood makes one a worgen. Meaning the curse is in the blood.


Many blood related things are transmited through sex.
So personally if one thinks the curse in worgen blood is transmitted in sex I personally dont mind.


But nowhere have I seen stated that through sex worgens can be made. 
If someone dosnt agree the curse is transmited through sex well they have the right to think that cuz once again blizzard didnt give any examples of newborn worgens.


I rp a Worgen Child that was made a worgen. I was eager to rp her and to avoid hours of searching in lore I went along with what was definable as lore acceptable by the majority.

The curse is in bodily fluids. It's transferable both by blood and by saliva. Therefore it's almost certainly transferred through sex as well.

Best way to get around it though is to just say it's not a 100% chance of cursing you, so the other player can choose whether or not they get infected.

As for worgen offspring... not even going to get into this argument.

Some usually say i'd not get into the worgen change till a certain age if i'd transmit to the other, or that it's not a full change he'd get the curse, again up to the people it seems or asumptions. One can asume a kid gets bitten as well.

And blood changing and so... I've always wondered in the Silverpine questline humans do drink up worgen blood to become worgen but do not become feral. So all in all it's very -unsure- how this actually works. Maybe it depends if the worgen has been trough the ritual (The one biting or sharing it's blood).

For baby shifting as well, not sure if that's be happening i'd be pretty risky with such.

Though usually it's noted worgen is your primary form. Game mechanics aside. The form is still going to be trigered instinctively in danger or high mesures of fear and there are seen worgen ghost ingame, when you kill them to "Free" their spirits (They are Gilneans Blasted lands questline) they human spirits thank you and "fly off". So does this mean your bunde of joy comes out a pup? 

Maybe, but then again usually nature and all that works it's own way out of it, which is why i think i'd remain human fully to birth and then probably once you reach a age (Maybe maturity or what?) you'd have a really wierd puberty... But what if a worgen bites a kid, confusing a bit though just my thoughts.

Interesting topic but we can mostly just asume or guess and follow our logic.

Due to the fact that there must have been children in Gilneas and I haven't seen a single lore Worgen child, I just assume they can't. There's a few bits of Werewolf lore I've read in a few different fictions that rarely/if at all has children and just goes under the idea that - they can be bitten, but the change would be too radical for a child to endure.

I'd say roll to see if a child survives and see if you get above 80, that's my opinion though. I don't really like the idea of Worgen children so until they lore confirm it, I like to avoid them.

Drustai wrote:The curse is in bodily fluids. It's transferable both by blood and by saliva. Therefore it's almost certainly transferred through sex as well.

Best way to get around it though is to just say it's not a 100% chance of cursing you, so the other player can choose whether or not they get infected.

As for worgen offspring... not even going to get into this argument.

Please please please someone in the council hold a safe sex with worgen lecture!

Vaell wrote:Due to the fact that there must have been children in Gilneas and I haven't seen a single lore Worgen child, I just assume they can't. There's a few bits of Werewolf lore I've read in a few different fictions that rarely/if at all has children and just goes under the idea that - they can be bitten, but the change would be too radical for a child to endure.

I'd say roll to see if a child survives and see if you get above 80, that's my opinion though. I don't really like the idea of Worgen children so until they lore confirm it, I like to avoid them.

Basically my opinion right there. The last time this topic came up, the thread was something of a shit pile. So, I'll be keeping my eye on it :p

I didn't realise that. But m'hm... I wouldn't RP a worgen child myself or a child at all, but I would personally, if it ever happened, have mine miscarriage for sure. I also wanted to note, if it were possible they may have more a change of twins, etc? Seems liable. A roll for the curse could be good as well, since it's not always passed on unless they have drank blood or bitten.

Lets just go by Twilight rules, like Vaells theory, and let warewolfs... I mean Worgen, discover their powers and be able to turn when they are well into their teenage years. Or else give birth to the baby, kiss or transplant blood or whatever to make it a worgen. Its simple, ya'll!

Why not just rob the orphanage?

What you must keep in mind with the Worgen is that it is specifically called a cuse and not a virus (or a plague or disease).

Worgen are steeped in a tradition of religious symbolism and vampire/werewolf folklore. The fact that the curse can be transfered by biting (a violent act) and contracts (or the sealing thereof with blood) are derive their meaning from symbolism. The worgen curse is transferable by biting because this is a trope we known from zombie lore. It is transferable by the drinking of blood because this is an established way how unholy covenants are sealed in the Warcraft world. I don't think the link between Gilneans giving in to the temptation to drink Worgen blood to be able to defend their homeland with the added strength of the curse, and the old Horde drinking the blood of Mannoroth is at all coincidental. It's the same motif.

Why do I bring this up?

Because this symbolic dimension is more important than the scientific/factual dimension. Can you deduce from the fact that, because the curse can be transmitted trough blood transfusals and biting, it must also necessarily be transferred to offspring? Yes, probably; but what does that mean on the symbolic level - the level from which the Worgen curse derives its original meaning from?

If you respond in the positive and say the Worgen curse is transmitted to the offspring, you send out a message that the sins of the parents are transferred to the next generation - this is very purposefully done with the Orcs and the green skin. Offpsring of green Orcs share their accursed heritage and are made very well aware of the sins of their forefathers as they are confronted with it. That is why Thrall has to have green skin. For symbolic reasons - he must tackle and overcome his accursed heritage, which he always carries around in his skin.

So, rather than to ask yourself whether 'scientificly' the curse would logically be transferred to offpsring, ask yourself this: what kind of story do you want to tell with the children of the worgen characters? Do you want them to tackle with the sins of the forefathers they were innocent to? Or do they represent a new hope for an accursed kind and a cleansed Gilneas?

It's up to you and the story you want to tell.

*Stands up and starts slowly claping, teardrop falls*

Sure something to think about!

I want to second what Thelos said, really. 
Kitt had a son, and I left it (the curse) intentionally vague- for all appearances a normal kid for the moment, but the future left open. What I will say is- things are both oocly and icly uncertain, and I took it that way in terms of rp- taking a lot of precautions, seeking out druids for advice...and so on. Basically treating it as a very risky pregnancy.
 
But I wouldn't try to apply real-world science to it, it's a magical blood-borne curse, as Thelos said, think about the symbolism, and STORY- are you going for redemption or sins-of-the-fathers, or...? And so on.

Worgen don't have babies.

They have puppies.

Me and Humphry did joke that we should use to represent it...

D'aww it has your... Er... Claws?

"what a pretty baby" (the most horrible thing to say)

Drustai wrote:The curse is in bodily fluids. It's transferable both by blood and by saliva. Therefore it's almost certainly transferred through sex as well.

not necessarily

the malaria parasite is found in the blood but is not sexually transmitted!!! altho personally i like to think that the worgen curse can be passed sexually cause id love to see a group of proworgen who go around raping people and forcing them into becoming worgen and then the entire world is worgen thatd be totes amazeballs

Shaelyssa wrote:

Drustai wrote:The curse is in bodily fluids. It's transferable both by blood and by saliva. Therefore it's almost certainly transferred through sex as well.

not necessarily

the malaria parasite is found in the blood but is not sexually transmitted!!!altho personally i like to think that the worgen curse can be passed sexually cause id love to see a group of proworgen who go around raping people and forcing them into becoming worgen and then the entire world is worgen thatd be totes amazeballs

They can do that, it is called biting XD Becides everyone knows that Worgs cant erp, closest they can get is humping your leg.

Also Worgs can not feel love.

Thelos wrote:classic thelos waffle/dribble/blahblahblah lol

i like how you compared gilneans with orcs and mannoroths blood never thought of that before :D

Lexgrad wrote:

Shaelyssa wrote:

Drustai wrote:The curse is in bodily fluids. It's transferable both by blood and by saliva. Therefore it's almost certainly transferred through sex as well.

not necessarily

the malaria parasite is found in the blood but is not sexually transmitted!!!altho personally i like to think that the worgen curse can be passed sexually cause id love to see a group of proworgen who go around raping people and forcing them into becoming worgen and then the entire world is worgen thatd be totes amazeballs

They can do that, it is called biting XD  Becides everyone knows that Worgs cant erp, closest they can get is humping your leg.

my plans a bit cooler cause it involves love and sex and viking like tendencies hello get with the program

Shae, I really hope you never roll a gilnean char XD

He had one.

i miss izaiah he was a great worgen