Did MoP put the "war" back into Warcraft?

sup, merry christmas and shit

I, for one, have refused to buy it, because:

Spoiler:

But the two questions I want to ask are:
Has MoP lived up to expectations (over all)?
Has MoP put the "war" back into Warcraft?

Vangrel Lansire wrote:But the two questions I want to ask are:
Has MoP lived up to expectations (over all)?

Yes. MoP has exceeded my expectations. The lore, for those who actually play it, is fantastic. The pandas were implemented very well (this is speaking as someone who didn't particularly care for them originally), and have become one of the most fleshed out races we have. Most people who thought the expansion would be bad, have since changed their minds after playing through it.

I personally rate MoP at the same level as TBC in quality, if not better, and I feel it vastly exceeds both Cataclysm and Wrath of the Lich King.

Additionally, Pandaria has been amazing from an exploration/RP standpoint. There are many, many excellent areas for RP, and zones are large and yet not terribly overpopulated by hostile mobs. There are many areas that are not used for questing, only being there for the sheer sake of exploratory value.

Difficulty has both improved and decreased. While regular questing is vastly improved, and many mobs incorporate expanded ability sets that has even lead to some people complaining on the forums about it being too hard (I don't think it's hard, but hey, some people do), the heroic dungeons of TBC and early Cata days are gone. If you want difficult dungeons, you have to do Challenge Modes, but those are outside the 'standard' system as they aren't required for grinding gear. Raids, on the other hand, have gotten very positive reviews, from what I have seen. LFR is obviously piss easy, but I have seen many hardcore raiders praise the 10/25-man raiding compared to Cata.

Has MoP put the "war" back into Warcraft?

Yes. MoP has done the most to further the war than any expansion before it. To summarize the war developments we've had:

Vanilla: Established that the pact was splintering, and armed conflict had erupted in a few isolated areas (battlegrounds, etc). The pact remained intact, however, and the factions came together for the AQ war.

TBC: Continued the trend in vanilla. The pact was further deteriorating at first, with Horde and Alliance aiming their cannons at each other while at the same time joining forces to battle the demonic legions. By the end of the expansion, however, the pact is solidified once again, reversing the damage the minor skirmishes have done to this point.

WotLK: Prior to Wrathgate, it is shown that the pact seems to be holding. Alliance and Horde literally fight as brothers in arms against the Scourge in the battle of the Wrathgate. However, the pact finally unravels for good when Putress bombs both armies and Varian declares war. By the end of the expansion, there is little kinship remaining (save a tender moment concerning Saurfang's son), and the two factions fight each other even in the middle of the final raid instance.

Cata: Though it's technically full war, only Horde really gets to experience this. Alliance seems to be sitting on their ass while the Horde wins battle after battle. And despite full war, the two factions still join together to defeat the Twilight Hammer and Deathwing. Cata was an absolute disgrace for Alliance, really. It was a Horde story through and through.

MoP: Full war, properly. Theramore is nuked. The Alliance finally retaliates in force, and the very first quest series for both factions involves an all-out attack on an enemy faction base. Though troop quantity is low, as both Alliance and Horde only landed with small strike forces, they still do a ton of damage to the continent, both destroying landmarks and releasing the sha. And while the war does take a backseat following the conclusion of Jade Forest (so 86-90 is mostly handling Pandaria issues, which if you don't like the Pandaria stories may not interest you), it is made apparent that this is only because the main fleets haven't arrived yet. As the devs said before launch, "You resolve all of Pandaria's storylines in the base expansion. All the content patches will focus fully on the war."

They seem to live up to this promise. In 5.1, the main fleets arrive. Both factions complete quests that result in constructing their main bases in the Krasarang Wilds, complete with some pretty neat landing cinematics (here and here). There are faction-specific scenarios and full daily quest factions focusing on the war effort in Krasarang, complete with regular (And by regular, I mean once every other day regular) quest updates, culminating in the Alliance purging the Sunweavers from Dalaran and the Kirin Tor formally joining the Alliance, and the Horde infiltrating Darnassus to recover the Divine Bell (an artifact that would allow Garrosh to "control" the sha) and infiltrating Dalaran to rescue detained Sunweavers. Both factional quest lines result in a cliff hanger, with 5.2 bringing more story. Essentially, 5.1 has been nothing but war.

From the perspective of someone who absolutely loves military characters/guilds/stories and RPs them more than anything else, MoP has been the best expansion for war by far. It was always a sideshow in the previous expansions, while it is taking the center spot in MoP. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next.

Also, from the perspective of an Alliance player, I am very happy with our treatment this time. Alliance finally found its spine, and is kicking ass. So far, the Alliance has been the superior player in the Pandaria campaign, and at the very least has been maintaining air superiority over the continent as the Horde lost their gunship in the Jade Forest quests. And we have Sky Admiral Rogers, who kicks ass.

MoP is an amazing expansion, everything about Pandaren is amazing, Pandaria is stunning and omfg yes finally there's an actual focus on war!

My only concern is that this expansion is a little bit world of dailycraft. Whereas the dailies can be ignored in some cases (farm, fishers) other's can't if you want to buy the gear.. because you need the rep and you can only get rep by doing the dailies. Most reps are then being gated by first needing to get Golden Lotus rep up and their dailies are the shittest of them all.

The new BGs are really fun, I really like them, and their unique and not just copies from existing BGs, which is good!

Passing grades all round, except for making valor vendors require rep.

You don't need to do the dailies. The valor gear really isn't that important, since you can get more than enough gear upgrades from just running instances. I think I bought maybe two or three valor pieces, rest came from LFD and LFR. Main reason to grind the factions is for the crafting recipes, or the storyline quests if you want to experience them.

That being said, gating certain factions behind Golden Lotus was probably the biggest flunk with the expansion, I think.

Overall probably the same as the others already said. Yes at first mention of panda like humanoids is strange. But they did place them in very well. Is is the player who makes them look bad (Aside from the female face always being :3 i supose). But overall their lore is nice, story good. I'm more pleased than what i saw through cata and i started playing in it.


This is what made my day when i got to pandaria at first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQrg188FsBc

And you do get payback time! So yes it does bring the war more than the other content i've played trough.

And 5.2 will only continue the trend with an Isle of Quel'danas style quest hub that has Jaina's forces and Aethas' (Sunreaver) forces pitted against each other while we prepare to invade the Thunder King's lair (which i have decreed the love child of Ulduar and the Black Temple). The focus on the war is still present and Blizzard will enforce this and give us the best choice of dailies ever: PvP or PvE!

Oh and Dinomancers!

I have seen plenty of war, rp-wise as well.

Only really played that much as Horde, but I've never felt that MoP put the 'war' back into it, simply because the game doesn't really make you feel like you're in a war.

The violence is utterly random, disorganised, hugely overbalanced one way and then another. There's no big battles, very few clear orders and objectives, just occasional savage murders while the few sane people left, like Anduin and the pandas, facepalm at the utter pointlessness of it all.

It more puts the 'slum district in a major city, where you could be mugged and knifed by some prick at any moment and there's nothing you can do about it except leave rapidly' into Warcraft.

To clarify: the recent war RP campaign was brilliant.

As usual, the entertainment that the community makes for itself is far superior to the stuff that Blizzard provide.

Vangrel, lighten up. It's Christmas!

To be honest, as far as player-organised stuff goes, I've felt like there was more of a war in expacs like The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King than there has been in this expansion.

Aside from that, the expansion has proved to be quite good in my eyes. The only aspect I do absolutely detest are all the ridiculous amount of dailies that's being shoved down our throats - and now even in combination with PvP in order to see any kind of story progression.

Vangrel Lansire wrote:
Has MoP lived up to expectations (over all)?

For me? Yes. But no at the same time. For the first couple of months I knew I wasn't very fond of the latest zone. The quests were great fun, don't get me wrong, but the lore was not to my taste. The zones felt a bit dry to me - this can be said of Wrath, but I preferred the Nordic/undead snowy wilderness. Do not get me wrong, it is very pretty but that is exactly why I'm not too fond of it. I wasn't very impressed with the Pandaren raced and I still wouldn't role-play one, though I do RP with them as the world is a little more fun than the serious role-play I usually enjoy. Provides a nice break.

The levelling was not as good as Cata in my opinion. I loved how diverse the zones were. Hyjal was finally in the game , Vash'jir provided something totally new, then you get sent to Deepholm, despite it not being a fun zone - it was very different to the previous two, then Uldum (again, very different) and then finally a war felt zone. I loved Cata for the questing lore more than any other expansion.

Why has MoP then managed to exceed my expectations? (they were low to begin with but it has proved itself, so I'm not just saying it's like finding a pound coin in a turd). My answer actually ties in with your next question sooooo...!

Vangrel Lansire wrote:
Has MoP put the "war" back into Warcraft?

YES IT FUCKING WELL HAS! So I bought MoP because I'm a consumer of the "latest thing!" but I didn't enjoy it too much, it just felt like a bit of average extra content. Before, I had an incentive to level - to kill that enemy I've read all about prior! Which was probably why I didn't get as much into it as others, but the war aspect has sold it on every level.

Vanilla: Though I loved it because it introduced me to MMOs, it didn't really have much of a theme. Their theme was "This is a consistent warcraft world! Enjoy!" Which was great. The world pvp never felt like it was part of the lore or that you were doing something exceptional for your faction, it was just fun.

TBC: So we started teaming up with the Alliance (I was Horde at this point). Good fun! "I remember Illidan :O I want to kill him!" Yeah, no real war though. Hellfire had a mini one but meh...

Wrath: Ok, finally! Arthas! But nope. Not even the slightest feeling of a war. The Horde and Alliance were like spaghetti and meatballs.

Cata:Nothing... nothing... nothing... TWILIGHT HIGHLANDS? WAR?! ... Oh, no, false alarm.

MoP: Two words. Well, one word. Two words merged into one word. Shieldwall! Never before in WoW have I wanted to do dailies. They're mind numbingly shit. I am so bored of the game that I'd struggle to level 1 - 10 with heirlooms. Yet, these ones managed to keep me going on every day even to the point where if it was half 1 in the morning, I'd stay up the extra 30 mins just to do the dailies. They were full of fun PvP, they were short enough to keep fresh and they provided very exciting lore quests every couple of days. I'm excited for new content of a similar style.

all I can say is yes yes and yes.. pandaria has been awsome on all fronts!! I love it!

I've enjoyed most aspects of Pandaria, but bar the RP/PVP campaigns we've had (and those we'll have in the future) I wouldn't say it's put the "WAR" back into Warcraft.

It's given me a little more PVP, but even the random attacks from 90s while I'm levelling has drastically reduced - Nobody even bothers to start some pvp in the daily zones either.

As for the lore, the implementation of the Pandaren and the feel of the levelling process, I think they're all top notch. I've definitely not had as much fun with an expansion since TBC.

The only thing that would properly put "War" back into a "Warcraft" game is a war-game, i.e a strategy game, in which wars are waged.

I never really understood the sense of the "Putting War back in Warcraft" slang. Vanllia was the most peaceful era in Warcraft history.

Paozi/Thelos wrote:The only thing that would properly put "War" back into a "Warcraft" game is a war-game, i.e a strategy game, in which wars are waged.

I never really understood the sense of the "Putting War back in Warcraft" slang. Vanllia was the most peaceful era in Warcraft history.

I don't think it refers to Vanilla but instead to the massive conflicts in the strategy game. I still believe MoP has done a pretty good job of it.

Vaell wrote:

Paozi/Thelos wrote:The only thing that would properly put "War" back into a "Warcraft" game is a war-game, i.e a strategy game, in which wars are waged.

I never really understood the sense of the "Putting War back in Warcraft" slang. Vanllia was the most peaceful era in Warcraft history.

I don't think it refers to Vanilla but instead to the massive conflicts in the strategy game. I still believe MoP has done a pretty good job of it.

Well in that case, the people that want to see the war returned to warcraft will just have to wait untill the inevitable Warcraft IV hits the shelves in the next decennium.

Despite the fact I love RPing on WoW, I hope that they stick with their original intentions of making the next expansion their last. I have no idea whether they will or not but I'd love a Warcraft IV.

Despite the fact I love RPing on WoW, I hope that they stick with their original intentions of making the next expansion their last. I have no idea whether they will or not but I'd love a Warcraft IV.

^ This.

They can drag wow out for all eternity as far as I'm concerned. I do love this game xD

I like to think i have some insight into the subject, i've watched the up's and down, and downs of W-pvp since the first days of vanilla And indeed the first days of Defias brotherhood.

What you have to realise is, theres two levels to the topic. Firstly, the story and lore level based around quests, patches and updates. and secondly the player perception level.

MoP has indeed thrust the war between the Horde and the alliance firmly into our faces. Its everywhere, from the moment you begin the horde/alliance MoP quests to reach jade forest with those wonderful cut scenes, up to the battle at serpents heart where Admiral taylor and general nazgrim clash. We had some respite thereafter, up until 5.2 that is. And its back, everywhere and pivotal to the story and current events. Thats the story and lore level, and its... yep, you guessed, PvE.

On the other hand, people say W-pvp/war has dissapeared. This is true, but for other reasons. Flying mounts, are my main bet. People dont ride anywhere anymore, and flying presents a quick and easy escape route when your level capped. no need to bump into folks on the ground anymore. and secondly, organisation. We have too few people organising too few campaigns, and the ones that are created (as awesome and immersive as they are) are complicated, rigid, and most of all... few and far between. WoW is an 8 year old game, the player base wont spend all its time bouncing between tarren mill and southshore for all those years.

So yes, MoP Brought back the war, most definatly.

But MoP wont push the player base into doing W-pvp, or creating sporadic off the cuff W-rp-pvp. Only us, the players, can do that.

Vaell wrote:Despite the fact I love RPing on WoW, I hope that they stick with their original intentions of making the next expansion their last.

I have no idea where you got this from, but this is all but true. There's no plans for making any "last" expansions yet, and they've said so again and again.

Coppersocket wrote:

Vaell wrote:Despite the fact I love RPing on WoW, I hope that they stick with their original intentions of making the next expansion their last.

I have no idea where you got this from, but this is all but true. There's no plans for making any "last" expansions yet, and they've said so again and again.

Do you not remember the leaked 'timeline' that came out a few years back?

Spoiler:

Though timing is a little off, this was their original plan. This was the direction WoW was meant to go in back in 2010 and is the best source of information at the time; since then, I don't remember them claiming it was fake (source pls) and it might have changed, hence why I said "stick with their original intentions". Nor do I remember hearing them say it would go on and on. If you have sources, that'd be nice - but I can't see it going much further.

It makes sense from a business point of view to only do one (two at the very most!). Their game mechanics are becoming quite outdated, the company could do a lot more with more modern tech and their player count has been slowly dwindling. It still has high peaks when an expansion is released, but it'll slowly lose a quarter (if not a third) of the players over the course of the 6 months following.

With Project Titan's release, I'm hoping they put a backfoot on WoW and just put patches in for the few years it remains open after the last expansion. A lot of people mention "Well Everquest is older and still going" but Blizzard are renowned for being the best in a lot of game genres so I'm hoping they'll pump as much as they can into Titan before anyone takes #1 spot. SWTOR, GW2, Tera, LOTRO etc; all have tried to take the first position and failed but sooner or later there will be a game that manages to best WoW. Hopefully Titan.

The schedule doesn't say "X5" is to be the last "X", though.

And persistant rumors have been saying "Titan" is going to be more shooty, and less arpee-gee-y.