Re: DefiasRP: For Community or Moderators?

[Vyrinn]

To go back to the core of this post, about Epithos / Torradan.

I kind-off need to agree with Coppersocket. I respect the mods for trying to get this forum as clean as possible, but to not allow a RP-er like Epithos, who is currently putting alot of effort in events, etc. is just a miss for the community. Also, even if he made some mistakes in the past, and people hold grudges, in this case, clearly geldar and some other mods, I think it's pretty fair to say that allthough all of that shit, still no reason to keep a valuable RP-er, banned, from a online-video-game-comminity.

I suggest everyone just take a breather and watch a movie or something. Getting this worked up over a game and a forum of a game is beyond silly.

This is kind-off your job, and others to maintain, you chose to be a Mod, and clearly there's some question about how you and others perform as mods.


I think it's quite fair to say that the mods just need to pass trough what the community wants, clearly it's some equality and influence in this forum.

(( sorry for bad grammar etc. ))

[Cathee Norris]

I really don't see why I deserved that insult, but fair enough:

Yes, I am insecure. I have banged my head over this forum for far too long, let people that targeted me get to me RL. This is something I won't accept now as I value my RL far more then WoW and this forum now, finally. I am going to handle my work on the forum as calmly and professional as possible. I never lead something on this scale before, I had no clue at all how to do it. It's a learning process, and me and moderators make mistakes that we learn from - like any human.

I am not going to explain publicly because I know that, whatever I say, in whatever way I say it. There will be someone that will nitpick and tell me I'm wrong and stupid. That is why I'm not going to answer to it unless in a PM.

[Vyrinn]

I really don't see why I deserved that insult, but fair enough:

Yes, I am insecure. I have banged my head over this forum for far too long, let people that targeted me get to me RL. This is something I won't accept now as I value my RL far more then WoW and this forum now, finally. I am going to handle my work on the forum as calmly and professional as possible. I never lead something on this scale before, I had no clue at all how to do it. It's a learning process, and me and moderators make mistakes that we learn from - like any human.

I am not going to explain publicly because I know that, whatever I say, in whatever way I say it. There will be someone that will nitpick and tell me I'm wrong and stupid. That is why I'm not going to answer to it unless in a PM.

It wasn't ment as an insult towards you, sorry if I putted it like that. I ment it in general.

Sorry, if you feel personally attacked.

[Cathee Norris]

No, that was meant at Coppersocket. Nothing that was insulting in your post at all.

[Grufftoof]

in this case, clearly geldar and some other mods

can we really, please lay this one down. shoot it, turn it into dog food or something?

"some other mods" is whom? There really aren't that many to choose from, most have posted here in some form. That there is a "past" between some mods, other people, and Ephitos is true. I think we can all agree on that.

But for the love all all that is tentacled, it really isn't a witch hunt, hasn't been and I bloody well wouldn't have made any post about this if it had been simply a personal attack.

That wouldn't be me, it wouldn't be an action I'd go with. I would not have felt comfortable at all with making saying "no" to a registration if I didn't believe it was the right thing.

That's my words, you don't have to believe me. Few on this forum probably know me maybe those that do can see some truth in the above.

Now we're discussing, here and between the mods what next to do with regards Ephitos (the reason for this post initially).

[Antistia]

Grufftoof,

Geldar did not make the call. No one person did. I have no personal history with Ephitos, I gave my opinion on this matter based on what I have seen and what records there are here and elsewhere. It does seem that regardless of what is said, or what actions follow some people will always be convinced this is a personal matter and an action was made because of a grudge or grudges. I am sure there are plenty of grudges in this community (we can see some raising their heads here), but I am not alone in being a Mod who acts with as much impartiality as possible.

I feel this is somewhat pointed at my post. I'd just like to know that I'm not so much concerned at any conscious decision by any moderator. My concern is with the subconscious influencing decisions - which it does.

This is why people who are required to speak impartially and objective on matters don't do that when they're somehow invested (either in a positive or negative manner) in that matter.

[Morgeth]

I'll just slip something into the debate, despite all my spider senses telling me not to.

About Eph: He was banned for breaking the rules (repeatedly). Personally, I'm all for considering giving a second chance, in regards to the time that has gone by and considering his ban wasn't for something terribly awful (like threatening to murder someone, etc.). And it is STILL DISCUSSED, after all. Yay.

As for moderation/forum in general.
If the forums become badly moderated/handled then people will leave. Thus it is in the admins/moderators direct interest to listen to the "majority", or they'll soon be moderating diddly squat. But it's also important to have some degree of trust in that moderators/admins do ban/comment/bladiha in a reasonably competent way. I do say reasonably because nobody's 100% objective. Friends of friends, etc.

I don't moderate this to get on some power high, and I have *serious* doubts anyone does, because seriously. If moderating defias RP is what makes my balls grow, then that's just sad, but if there's an honest opinion that this is the case, then I am happy to just step the hell down.

I don't get along with some people, but I'm not out to get them. If we spent less time lynching each other, and trying to think up creative insults (that aren't really creative, mind) then perhaps thing's calm down a notch. I'm not really trying to take a high horse on this, considering how god damned vile I can be when I get pissed off, but hey.

Bottom line is that if people are unhappy with moderators, then those opinions are obviously noted. Though I think what'd benefit people MOST would be to forward them to someone, say Saihna, without the whole "YE DAFT WENCH" vibe.

[Grufftoof]

Grufftoof,

Geldar did not make the call. No one person did. I have no personal history with Ephitos, I gave my opinion on this matter based on what I have seen and what records there are here and elsewhere. It does seem that regardless of what is said, or what actions follow some people will always be convinced this is a personal matter and an action was made because of a grudge or grudges. I am sure there are plenty of grudges in this community (we can see some raising their heads here), but I am not alone in being a Mod who acts with as much impartiality as possible.

I feel this is somewhat pointed at my post. I'd just like to know that I'm not so much concerned at any conscious decision by any moderator. My concern is with the subconscious influencing decisions - which it does.

This is why people who are required to speak impartially and objective on matters don't do that when they're somehow invested (either in a positive or negative manner) in that matter.

I know, and in part my reply was to you, but not directly (hence I didn't tag you in it so to speak). And whilst impartiality is a good thing, and bias should be limited we're obviously influenced by our subconcious and the actions or thoughts of those around us. But this isn't a jury and we're not in a court. I'm not bound to keep my eyes out of the papers, or off of TV in case I see something that could influence my decision negatively (or positively for that matter). The fact you've just written me a cheque for St Tiggywinkles Hedgehog Sanctuary doesn't mean I'll take your side on this, or that matter.

I understand your concern, or point, but to find someone here to post on any topic they're not somehow invested in would be difficult if not impossible. As we're all invested in RP, this realm, community and forums.

Edit: Back to the Future edit. Yes Brid, a cuppa and a slice of cake please *nudge nudge*. I'll be round in five.

[Lorainne/Bridlington]

Morgeth, you have beautiful female testicles.

#badumtish


Call me an arselicker, but I appreciate the time moderators (of which some no longer play World of Warcraft) put into maintaining a forum without any pay or thanks for their effort.

Other than that, give the sod another chance to upset people.
Contradictive statement, eh? Fancy a cup of tea, Grufftoof? I'll have some of that dog food with it, since I used to role play a quasi-dog after all.

[Coppersocket]

See, Vaell. Now that is a constructive post without swearing and insults that I'd love to answer. For the moderation issue, I explained earlier that I am not a Mod but an Admin that does technical work like forum/group maintance, I do not get involved in community issues because I am detached and I have already said that.

As for the Council, the reason for why I was holding off from leaving for so long was to see things pick up again and get new people before moving on to other projects. For the past year or so before MoP hit and we got some new people I was more or less the only active member that gathered the current ones (And the members of the Council who were part of it then can confirm that or well, the ones that were gathered along the way during that period!). I wanted a stable structure and active people who would not abandon the concept the moment they got bored of it or the RP around it, and the thing with this is that it is very, very hard to find people like that. No title or power hoarding, just a bloody minded refusal to let it go to hell before it is stable after so many years of work on it.

And yes, I know I am not active before someone else mentions it again. And yes, all the things you say/said I am aware of. And there is always the fact that there is no point in doing something if it is not fun anymore, yes? Yes. And my time is still my own to decide how and where to invest it, regardless of what some of the above might want to suggest. Also, Coppersocket or whomever you are, insulting people to get your answers will provide you with nothing, really. Actually, it can provide you with a warning from a Moderator.

Now this, this is what I want to see. Was it really -that- hard to answer like this? This is a understandable position, and I'm glad that you finally shared it.
I'll insult whoever I need to, to get the answer I need. If that gives me a warning, then fair games. I'm not gonna change.
But then raises the question, did I really need to write all that I did, to get this answer? Do you consider that, in any reasonable situation fair? I wasn't being sarcastic, I was being dead serious. I wanted a proper answer, and what you gave me was shit. You should have your warning for not giving a quick clear answer immediately so this could've been avoided.
I have a tendency to heat up very much when I don't get responses that are proper, or if I'm just out to be an ass (Which can be confirmed in previous threads.) I wanted a genuine answer to it, and it took you how long to sum it up? I know it may sound as I hate you and your presence here, but that's not the case. I just want the community to think for a while "Is this really how it's supposed to be?". Cause, clearly something wrong when someone who isn't an active part of the community, is to pretend he is. So it wasn't actually anything personal, although I probably made it sound like that, and for that I honestly apologize.

Also, Copper - I can understand you wanting some sort of answer (One that I can't provide you either) but as an honest question: I can understand people's potential issues with characters holding high positions when they aren't around etc, etc. However, can I ask how his not being around much on Defias effects his ability to perform admin duties? He doesn't really even moderate. This isn't a dig or whatever, I'm curious.

It's not about if he can preform them or not Ledgic. It's about the fact that it's not really proper to have someone who isn't part of the community to be in a position where he seems like he is. This goes for the mod thing too. Should we not have people who are actually on this community, rather than people who are not. This forum is made for people of the community, so people who aren't of the community really have nothing here to do, do they? Let alone moderate it. Again, as stated above, nothing personal against Geldar. The same could be said for anyone else who isn't active within the community, why are you a moderator of a community which you do not belong in? Clearly something's gone wrong then.

I really don't see why I deserved that insult, but fair enough:

Yes, I am insecure. I have banged my head over this forum for far too long, let people that targeted me get to me RL. This is something I won't accept now as I value my RL far more then WoW and this forum now, finally. I am going to handle my work on the forum as calmly and professional as possible. I never lead something on this scale before, I had no clue at all how to do it. It's a learning process, and me and moderators make mistakes that we learn from - like any human.

I am not going to explain publicly because I know that, whatever I say, in whatever way I say it. There will be someone that will nitpick and tell me I'm wrong and stupid. That is why I'm not going to answer to it unless in a PM.

You didn't deserve the insult but I felt it necessary to get a reponse. But I gotta ask you, am I wrong? The community is larger than you and I, and thus I stand with my foot on the ground and say No.

It isn't right to hide such information behind curtains, if it had been a personal matter, yes, sure. But this isn't. This is a matter that affects the entire group that's here on this Forum that you created so isn't it just right that they get to see such information? It's not meant as a offense towards you. Keep that in mind. Someone had to pop the question some time.
I got nothing against you, however I feel that this issue needs to be addressed in public, because of the stated reason above. I apologize if I put you in a troublesome position, but that's something I see as unavoidable.

I apologize to Geldar for making him a guinea pig here, and I apologize for any insult up til' now, I write what I feel necessary to get the most effect from people. It's rarely meant as an actual insult, rather than just forcing people to respond.

[Antistia]

Obviously I'm not asking for the impossible. I fully recognize that it is nearly impossible to truly find someone impartial here. Which is why I, primarily, pointed my arrows at those who're engaged in a running conflict with Ephitos, that is to say an 'active' conflict.

If mod X is in a fight with Ephitos, I would find it prudent for mod X not to involve himself in the discussion and vote regarding him as his opinion would be very likely impartial, whether he likes it or not.

The flipside is that the same really applies to those whom consider Ephitos a friend, like me. I shouldn't, were I a mod, involve myself in that discussion or vote on it.

Such a policy would be wise and prudent for obvious reasons.

The above is directed towards Gruff, obviously.

[Guest]

Copper is litterally eph 2.0 at this point. Starts with an issue he's pretty clueless about and proceeds to make that side look completly retarded by throwing abuse left right and centre

You didn't deserve the insult but I felt it necessary to get a reponse.

who does that remind me of.

Anyway

There's no big "change" with Eph, he can put on his nice voice as long as he wants but he's still one of the angriest guys I've ever met(I'll probably get a brick in my window for saying this). And I dare any of his lackies to say they know him better than me.

I'd also like to point out that the moderation team are easily in the best state it's ever been - I'm looking at you Gruffthoof and Ledgic.

Anyway I suppose there's no better way for DB to celebrate it's birthday then by belting out all our drama in one thread.

Happy Birthday guys. To another year.

[Zalissa]

Tbh I agree with Coppersocket on Geldar to an extent, only because my own personal experience with you, Geldar, is one that makes me bitter and quite frankly I think you're a hypocrite when you call out Gogol or Torradan by accusing them of preventing RP when you did it to me. That, and you're an overall arrogant arse.

But don't be insulting Saihna, being a mod is a pain in the arse job, I used to do it on an old RP forum prior to me even joining this one, it wasn't rocket science, but it was annoying, and the community back then was much worse in terms of insults and crass remarks. So beggars can't be choosers if someone volunteers to do it, I sure as hell wouldn't (if that's how it works). And it must be an even bigger pain in the arse job to host the forum nevermind moderate it.

But may I say, the mods who decided to not let Eph back on the forums, if you thought you were going to avert drama by your decision, well done on that epic fail.

pert, what kind of birthday party doesn't involve a family feud?

[John Helsythe Amaltheria]

(I'll probably get a brick in my window for saying this)

Lmao

[Coppersocket]

Copper is litterally eph 2.0 at this point. Starts with an issue he's pretty clueless about and proceeds to make that side look completly retarded by throwing abuse left right and centre

What. I'm sorry. What? It started with a question, it's been a running question the entire time. I was trying to get an answer.

Are you blind?

[Guest]

naw son you just kite geld for 2 hours cos your so cool like that im glad you shared that with me

which swear words are you going to call me now?

pert, what kind of birthday party doesn't involve a family feud?

I saw that edit. You called me Corleth >: (

[Lorainne/Bridlington]

Learn some manners, Coppersocket.

[Grim]

Oooooh here we go again!

[Geldar]

Grufftoof, the only completely impartial moderation of a forum that I have seen so far is on the Blizzard forums with its anonymous mods who are trigger happy to ban you the moment you type in the wrong letter without even bothering to explain themselves or allow you to provide your reasoning for what you typed. That's being impartial, completely detached from the issues without caring about the people behind those issues, only caring that the rules are enforced to the letter.

And yes, Antistia. Those who have a grudge are usually taking an abstaining position from the vote/discussion. And Coppersocket, the answer was given towards Vaell's questions as I didnt want to answer questions backed with so many insults even though they are meant to underline the point of the discussion, its a simple principle, albeit your own questions received an answer in the process, regardless! Also, again, I want to stress the fact that I am NOT a moderator but an administrator doing the technical work required for the forum/site/groups/members. I do not involve myself with moderating the community in any form or way. And I have never pretended to be active in the community when I am not, you can read the above answers I provided Vaell's post with for reference.

And Zalissa/Alorah, I do not remember when or where I might have insulted or prevented you from RPing, but if I have done something wrong, please, allow me to apologize for whatever might have been said or done back then and if you feel the need, please give me some details through a PM so that I can remember what the case was.

EDIT: Also, listen to Pert. He knows his stuff considering he knows the person in question personally. <_<

[Antistia]

That's being impartial, completely detached from the issues without caring about the people behind those issues, only caring that the rules are enforced to the letter.

It's extremely different, actually, but that's not a discussion for this thread.

And yes, Antistia. Those who have a grudge are usually taking an abstaining position from the vote/discussion.

That's good to hear.

[Zalissa]

naw son you just kite geld for 2 hours cos your so cool like that im glad you shared that with me

which swear words are you going to call me now?

pert, what kind of birthday party doesn't involve a family feud?

I saw that edit. You called me Corleth >: (

NO, NO I DIDN'T SHHH.
And I'll PM you right now Geldar, since what I was about to say out in the open here might make an uproar again.

[Amaryl]

I got my money's worth out of this thread.

I'd like to thank copper for making the last few pages really horrible to read.

but keep using that attitude, It gives me a reason to enjoy this forum, and laugh.

[Vardrek/Burgen]

The folks here seem to be gluttons for punishment...lol surely they'd all just be better not having forums like these where you get flame wars on mod bias etc and who should be let in and who shouldn't and just use the official ones like normal Rp'ers and let the blizzard employee's sort out the rude and the vulgar.

But no seems you all return here to get the last triumphant word on each other till your e-peen shines with the gold of a thousand glorious flame wars.

[Amaryl]

Are you dissing my glorious e-peen with the shines of a millions of silvery headed snakes?

[Finnabhair]

But no seems you all return here to get the last triumphant word on each other till your e-peen shines with the gold of a thousand glorious flame wars.

I am hoarding this quote. It made me lol.

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