LGBT needs you!, y'know.. if you wanna help.

Oskar wrote:In the end of the day there probably wouldn't be a need for pride parades if there weren't a lot of people around that still had a mentality about homosexuality that's quite a few decades old.

Do you see that solved with a parade though?

I don't understand the Gay Pride thing. But I see people get half naked and get drunk for all kinds of reasons. Though I'm not a fan of the parade in any way, I don't see it as wrong unless you plan to abolish all parades.

I'd abolish Carnaval, "Volendam" Music (and banish everyone listening to that crap) and the gay pride parade if i could!

That said, Its really a shame that some people are still being prosecuted for what you are.

but acting like a moron isn't the answer to try and fix it. which is what a pride parade generally is... people going all out crazy, wearing weird costumes, dancing to crappy music, and "sticking it to the haters" so to speak...

at the end of the day you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want to do as long as it doesn't infringe on other's people's right to do the same.

so i'll support peaceful protests in any shape or form, even if I think the people participating in it are simply idiots.

Oskar wrote:In the end of the day there probably wouldn't be a need for pride parades if there weren't a lot of people around that still had a mentality about homosexuality that's quite a few decades old.

You mean "excuse", not "need". The "need" for a .. parade to convince closeminded people is... very much a joke in itself, if you take a step back and just look at the picture there. At best, the "need" for it is... very very much a point of view, not a fact.

Do some groups of people get treated badly by other groups of people? Yes. But they also are NOT treated badly by OTHER groups of people. So why would I (not having discriminated anyone) have to get stuck in my car and suffer a 42 degree sun for hours in the middle of summer, being delayed on my own life and obligations, because 1000 gay activists decide they'll "show" neonazis they are cool by dancing half-naked and blocking a street, pray tell? (note: that is not specifically about LGBT protests. feel free to replace 1000 gay activists with 1000 workers on strike, who hang out there and chat about, while "fighting" for their "rights" every 2nd week, or whatever.)

Yes, I believe they have the right to not be persecuted for who they are. Yes, I believe they have the -right- to speak freely. But that doesn't mean I have to agree to it happening. Don't I have that right, too, in the same context and grounds?

Edit: Pretty much what Amaryl said, basically, applies here too.

PS/Edit2: Oh and.. no, love, you are in a forum. Look up the word. It's all about discussing. What's wrong with discussing? I hate "just signing and shutting up", I'm far more likely to not sign something at ALL than not discuss it and examine it.

Yes, you do. Any parade or carnival or such needs permission from the local government and the police etc. You can raise a complaint with valid reason. Likelihood of it doing something is slim. But if people do nothing, they have no right to complaint really

Parades and stuff can be fun. From Pride to Fantasy Fest to May Day to I dunno... stuff. They can be shite too. They can be annoying and loud and messy.

But so can lots of things. Least Pride et al come with rainbows and glitter and coloured beads.

COLOURED BEADS.

COLOURED BEADS.

grufftoof wrote:glitter

Oh, you didn't.

Nayan wrote:You mean "excuse", not "need". The "need" for a .. parade to convince closeminded people is... very much a joke in itself, if you take a step back and just look at the picture there. At best, the "need" for it is... very very much a point of view, not a fact.

Let's change it to "calling", then.

Jeanpierre wrote:Do you see that solved with a parade though?

I expect it to have as much effect as any parade has in just about any non-democratic country. Doesn't mean there should be any harm in trying, though.

I went to MAC and then Va Va Voom with a couple of friends and started playing around with the body glitter there. It was so much fun

Fact is, Gay people use Gay Pride as an excuse to block half a city, cause drama, noise and act disgusting without consequence (because I'm expressing my freedom man -.-), and defend a right that no one is disputing in the country they're having the parade in. Where the fuck is the Black Pride parades? Black people are oppressed in countries too, so don't give me the excuse "this wouldn't be needed if gays were treated properly".

Get this thread locked please, it's just ridiculous asking an RP community to stand up for rights that many people have different opinions on, and will turn into a personal flamefest sooner or later.

"Fact is..." what fact?

Black Power/Pride marches happen all over. The West Indian Carnival in Leeds for one, Notting Hill another? Thats two examples for quick ref.

Gay Prides are in areas where there is no fucking restrictions to your sexuality anyway; does Moscow disallow gay marriages? No. Do employers in Moscow decline your application because you're gay? No. So what the fuck is the reason? To show your pride in being gay? Should I make a parade for being white? For being agnostic?

Sure, do that. For example there's a parade in my home town for May Day celebrating good old Englishness, like erm... Maypoles and Coal Carrying. And one at the church my mum goes to for... well.. much the same, but with more Mary and wimples.

But I'd still like to know what your basis for this "fact" is:

"Fact is, Gay people use Gay Pride as an excuse to block half a city, cause drama, noise and act disgusting without consequence"

Lock a topic asking for people to sign a petition? That's what it was. The discussion was a product of that sure.

Edit, for clarity.

So you're saying the mayor should allow people to fuck over half the city because they want the world to know that they're homosexual and dislike being prejudiced against in a country that freely allows them to do what heterosexuals can do.

Lock a topic asking for people to sign a petition? That's what it was. The discussion was a product of that sure.

Does this mean, if people don't discuss it, I'm freely allowed to ask people to sign a petition, to say, support the KKK?

Edit: Look, I'm in no way a homophobe; in fact I hate people who are intolerable towards homosexuals, thinking that they're better in some way or are so egotiscal they think every gay/lesbian wants to shag them. I have friends/worked with/met people who are gay, and think no less of them. Hell, I even know people on Defias who are gay who I'm friends with, and when told they were gay, I just reacted with "Oh, cool." and carried on normally. It isn't a big deal to me, homosexuals are just everyday people.

But there's a fine line between saying your gay and shoving it in someone's face; especially via petition threads like this where it's "I'M GAY AND PROUD, SUPPORT ME." or Gay Pride parades where homosexuals are "In the face" of everyone in that city, block traffic, cause a huge amount of noise and basically screw over a large amount of people for a day to simply say "I'm gay."

I know people will look at my comments and think "What a twat." Simply because I disagree with a topic that is highly controversial. I can live with that, I can shrug my shoulders and say "Meh, they're entitled to their opinions about me." but opinions work both way, and I'm entitled to say what I think as well.

Thalgun wrote:Gay people use Gay Pride as an excuse to block half a city, cause drama, noise and act disgusting without consequence (because I'm expressing my freedom man -.-)

That is very correct (in some cases, at least. fairly sure -some- of the protests have grounds. let's not generalise.); but it's a whole different topic than muting a group of people because a louder group of people demand it.

Get this thread locked please, it's just ridiculous asking an RP community to stand up for rights that many people have different opinions on

Many people have different opinions in music too. Should we lock the Music topic too? And perhaps the Other Games as well, as people have different opinions there. That's going a bit too far, isn't it?

Should I make a parade for being white? For being agnostic?

Now there is something spot on. Go ahead. Express pride for being white, male, heterosexual. See how many seconds it takes to get thrown in a social ditch by everyone around you for being "racist", "sexist", "homophobe" and god knows what else. That's what the major block is for me to "accept" that "people need to express their pride for who they are", since it only applies to "some" people, not everyone. But, again, see it objectively, it's not a reason to -mute- others, it's only proof that there's something very wrong with the reasoning and the way people think.

So you're saying the mayor should allow people to fuck over half the city because they want the world to know that they're homosexual and dislike being prejudiced against in a country that freely allows them to do what heterosexuals can do.

Nop. But did the mayor do that for traffic reasons? Considering part of the whole newsflash was that another group of people were attacking them, and the police did not bother with them.

Hell, I even know people on Defias who are gay who I'm friends with, and when told they were gay, I just reacted with "Oh, cool." and carried on normally. It isn't a big deal to me, homosexuals are just everyday people.

Ditto.

But there's a fine line between saying your gay and shoving it in someone's face;

Agreed completely.

especially via petition threads like this where it's "I'M GAY AND PROUD, SUPPORT ME."

That's jumping into (unfair) conclusions, imo. In a forum you have many threads. Some interest you, some not. None is "shoved into your face". You chose to read it. I am not reading the majority of threads, for a long time now, if they don't catch my eye. Should I go protest to mods for allowing those threads to exist... in a forum?

I know people will look at my comments and think "What a twat." Simply because I disagree with a topic that is highly controversial.

Hardly. Some things I fully agree with. Some others not. Simple as that.

Speaking of petitions, though, there's one thing that's really bothering me about them - and funnily enough it would seem it's the exact thing some people here have requested. The fact that, when signing a petition, there is NO discussion like this one. All there is, is a name and a "sign ". So, everyone agrees in "black or white"? No, sorry, doesn't work that way. I signed because I don't believe in violence, oppression, muting. But I do NOT support parades. I support the right to them. I feel people are misusing that right 99.99% of the time. Is that visible in the petition? No. All that is visible is "x signed this". Which can be interpreted however anyone wants. And I don't think that's cool, really. I'd very much prefer my views to be visible, as they are in here.

*shrug* I just don't care what someone else does in their bedroom... or the kitchen... or hidden in a public garage.. well maybe not the latter.

I'm more bothered with the overzealous crusades Pro and Con. As if somehow I'm supposed to have an opinion on the matter. As if somehow I should give a damn what sexual orientation half the planet has. Gosh. Give it a rest.
What does annoy me is that such parades often encourage or play along with stereotypical images of the group participating. Or they just define new ones but rarely positive ones (except to the participating people).

On the other hand.. I try to image a heterosexual pride party, where I'm standing half drunk on a truck dancing on some techno music shouting to the next truck, loaded with drunk and willing women, "You can screw me!". I can imagine worse things.

Jeanpierre wrote:
On the other hand.. I try to image a heterosexual pride party, where I'm standing half drunk on a truck dancing on some techno music shouting to the next truck, loaded with drunk and willing women, "You can screw me!". I can imagine worse things.

Are we going to organise this for when we are one year without a government? I'm in.


Ps: Signed. Even though I think it might do little good but people who organise these things deserve some support.

Nithel wrote:I'm in.

See you there!

Ok, the "lock the thread" thing. Like Nayan says, or maybe tried to, or maybe I read that way, you choose to read this topic. The title of the topic is pretty open about what it is, no closeted intent (the pun is intended). If you might be offended, turn away. I'd say the same goes for the Tzeencth topic, hell plenty of the things here (if not all?) are "read at your own discretion".

I'd rather NO ONE shoved anything in my face or down my throat (unless I specifically asked, or gave my consent in some other way (maybe a code word, or nod)). I'd rather people didn't need to pigeon hole themselves or anyone else by sexuality, race or religion.

But I'd defend the rights of people to say "hello I am here, this is me". So long as it is done peacefully (I'm not aware of, for example in this case, any militant gays using Pride as a Punch-up (don't they all love Straight Bashing?!)) and hopefully with some inclusiveness and fun.

I've been to Pride here and in other countries. Same with other protests, marches and parades. Never had any problems, always enjoyed myself. Unless I have chosen not to. Or someone else has shoved something unasked for in my face (though sometimes...).

Nayan wrote:

Nithel wrote:I'm in.

See you there!

I've got the COLOURED BEADS ready.

You can bring the glitter. Glitter doesn't have to be gay.

grufftoof wrote:Or someone else has shoved something unasked for in my face (though sometimes...).

Oh my ...

Is it me, or is it a bit weird if "you have the right to do x, but actualy doing it is kind of stupid/derpy/a dick move". You have the right to throw around you >.> I suppose sexuality, but it's not exactly considerate to throw it in other peoples faces.

Shaelyssa wrote:

grufftoof wrote:Or someone else has shoved something unasked for in my face (though sometimes...).

Oh my ...

Haha. Not that. Or maybe. No.

Oh ... ?

I'm so tempted to forward that to Ayatara.

._.

I meant a truncheon, obviously.

Oo-er.

Saevir wrote:I'm so tempted to forward that to Ayatara.

I shall deny it ALL! And then she shall probably say "no surprise, figures", roll her eyes and laugh mockingly.

I can still become aggressive to Gruff, though, right?

And yes, it may sound weird to say "you have the right to do x, but it'd be silly" because the second part of the sentence is the writer's own opinion. We don't have to agree with a view, to see that someone else is allowed to have that view, do we?

Overall, I think it boils down to two simple questions:
- do you think someone should be disallowed from their view, assuming that view is not harming someone?
- if the answer above was "yes", do you think you'd have the same opinion if that someone was you and your view was what you'd consider should be "self-proven"? (for example, if that view was that 'heterosexuality is fine, l2p' or anything else you take for granted)

Bottomline:
a. gruff's quote from page 1
b. "I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend your right to say it" -Voltaire