Title for Gold?

There are plenty of examples in history when monarchs were selling noble titles in exchange for big money. Those who purchased them, were not that well-received by the nobility of course, but their children and children of children were.

Sophyra is after a title for some while now, and I reasoned that marriage is out of the question. Considering her origin&reputation, even if she DOES find some foolish young noble who would marry her, his family would lock him in the cellar and beat sense into him. So purchasing the title sounds like the obvious Plan B.

Do you think King Varian is desperate enough to start selling titles, and if so, how expensive would they be?

Given the economic crisis they're (Humans) suffering now, I wouldn't say it is impossible for them to sell a few titles in exchange for loads of gold.

The matter is a bit tricky, sovereigns didn't exactly sell titles as much as give them in exchange for some sort of compensation. The difference is hairfine, you could put it like this: If you can provide the monarch with something he/she needs (a loan, a fleet, an army etc.) then he'll probably reward you with a title.

The key words being "he needs". Varian won't hand out a title just because you have money. He will probably do it if you can loan him money he needs right now though. Or if you promise to raise him a large proper military regiment. Or comission a few vessels for his fleet.

There's an alternative though, and that's the most common form of nobility. That you'd be appointed to oversee a province. You're given a fief and a time limit, if you can make the province safe and productive (ie. pays the kings taxes) in X years it's yours. If not another person will be appointed to the fief. And Westfall is a true mess right now.

Overall I'd say that Varian is not desperate, but not above giving out a title in return for say a couple of warships or a fully outfitted and trained regiment. He'd probably also give out a title in return for returning some order to Westfall, Redridge or Duskwood I'd say.
Lower nobility, naturally.

As for what it'd cost? Well, I'd expect building a warship is lots of money. Quick count... it'd take about 2 years to commission one, and it usually have some 100 people working on it in the wharf. 100 men* 730 days * say... 4 silvers/day means 292,000 silvers or 2,920 gold just for wages. Then in addition there's crew you'll have to pay for (training). Hundreds of tonnes of Wood. Tar. Rope. Pitch. Canvass. Gunpowder. Between 10 and 60 cannons (there's a couple of hundred gold just there). Rent and commission fee from the wharf it's built in. A bunch of bribes. Security. And so on.
I could easily imagine a warship going up towards 5,000 gold (assuming median wage for artisans is 3 silvers/day) and you'd probably have to make two. Minimum.
Setting up a regiment is about similar (4 silvers a day for a 1200 men and three months training 4 * 1200 * 61 = 28400 silvers or 28,4 gold. Then suits of armour and weapons for all of them. Easily a few gold each. About a hundred officers. Lots of money right there. Support staff. Cheaper to create but part of the deal is that you keep supporting them to an extent).
A loan would be on the same level.

Basically.. One monster of a debt. That's what it'd cost.
On the upside... if you can cough it up you're pretty much guaranteed not only a title but a position at court. (and if you fund two warships you're going straight to high nobility, I assure you)

It sounds easier to hire some aspiring adventurer for a couple of gold and a pair of boots, and have him slay a dragon in your name!

But aye, it is a huge expense. Even if Sophyra is nicking everything that is not nailed to the floor and exploiting every opportunity, that ammount of money is just astronomical! Guess another alternative is to find an empowerished noble family who are ready to suffer a rep-blow in exchange for monetary support and gaining Sophyra's buisnesses into the family.

Or just get an influental noble to recommend Sophyra's skill at management next time the situation in Westfall comes up as a topic in the King's council. With a few well places bribes (in the 5-10 gold level, making the same assumptions as before) and some proper credentials Sophyra might be able to get a small holding on arrendation (nobility through service) after a interview.

She'd have to spend some money getting that holding into proper shape the next few years. But that'd be the "cheap" ticket into nobility.

Aye, but troubles of westfall are of such a magnitude that it will take at least a demonic legion to set them straight! So it is like nobility-through-russian-roulette. You win or you die!

Although, a very sound alternative! Should give it a thought.

Anaei has 'sold' titles to fund the war effort. Jus' sayin'!

Although I find the prospect very Stuart! Charles I sold titles to attempt to severe his requirement of pariliament however it caused uproar amongst the nobility. Varian doesn't strike me as someone who cares about titles anymore, (barbarian). I'd say grease a few politician's hands and Sophyra's -great- achievements could be brought to the King for example in magical research. Totally bypass the House of Nobles.

Pff! It is better to a hobo in Stormwind, than a noble in Stromgarde.

And I doubt the King awards titles for academic achievements.

Gahalla wrote:
As for what it'd cost? Well, I'd expect building a warship is lots of money. Quick count... it'd take about 2 years to commission one, and it usually have some 100 people working on it in the wharf. 100 men* 730 days * say... 4 silvers/day means 292,000 silvers or 2,920 gold just for wages. Then in addition there's crew you'll have to pay for (training). Hundreds of tonnes of Wood. Tar. Rope. Pitch. Canvass. Gunpowder. Between 10 and 60 cannons (there's a couple of hundred gold just there). Rent and commission fee from the wharf it's built in. A bunch of bribes. Security. And so on.
I could easily imagine a warship going up towards 5,000 gold (assuming median wage for artisans is 3 silvers/day) and you'd probably have to make two. Minimum.
Setting up a regiment is about similar (4 silvers a day for a 1200 men and three months training 4 * 1200 * 61 = 28400 silvers or 28,4 gold. Then suits of armour and weapons for all of them. Easily a few gold each. About a hundred officers. Lots of money right there. Support staff. Cheaper to create but part of the deal is that you keep supporting them to an extent).
A loan would be on the same level.

Actually a WHARF is a WareHouse At River Front, so it'd be built at a dock rather than a warehouse

Exaythe wrote:It sounds easier to hire some aspiring adventurer for a couple of gold and a pair of boots, and have him slay a dragon in your name!

But aye, it is a huge expense. Even if Sophyra is nicking everything that is not nailed to the floor and exploiting every opportunity, that ammount of money is just astronomical! Guess another alternative is to find an empowerished noble family who are ready to suffer a rep-blow in exchange for monetary support and gaining Sophyra's buisnesses into the family.

The Buckholmes might be interested in talking with you, they are well rich however already, but for more money/power they might.

Thanks for the offer, Dreth, but Sophyra is very demanding. She wants the title, without losing out on freedom. And marrying into an already powerful house puts her in a weak position.

I doubt marriages would occur really, Jarric would want a high high ranking and placid wife XD. But if you want to do business at some point im sure our chars could get on.

In other news Dreth hasnt forgot about you XD

Dreth would just love to see Sophyra in chains, but for reasons other than justice. He just can't admit it, even to himself!

Annd...make it buisness -and- pleasure!

Business and pleasure it will be. I doubt Jarric will be lured into any bad deals by fluttering eye lids or a sweet smile!

Stormwind's dark skinned N1 female-slut is on a rampage again! ;O


And no it isn't Tr-.. I'll just edit the first sentence.

Sophy's always on the rampage. That's why we all love her.

Exaythe wrote:Pff! It is better to a hobo in Stormwind, than a noble in Stromgarde.

And I doubt the King awards titles for academic achievements.

Some notable Arathorian nobles being the Founder of Humanity and Four Stormwind Ministers. So suck it.

If it is so good to be an arathorian noble, then wth are they doing in Stormwind? huh?

Back off.

I'm the fucking president of Batman Inc in DC:U!

Behold my massive claim of importance!


EDIT: Let's get back on-topic.

Exaythe wrote:If it is so good to be an arathorian noble, then wth are they doing in Stormwind? huh?

Aesthetic needed to be put down.

Its also quite reasonable that people can gain titles or nobility through acts such as charity, like building an orphanage...

theres also the flip side of war heroes gaining titles or social ranks. Seiken (when i played him) had quite a big title, and it was controversial that i should take it up without good merit initially, but over time (and with the spilling of orc and troll blood) i earned it.

Its easy enough to claim a title, or buy one, or earn one. Making it worth something to be revered, thats the tricky bit.

you could be a prince and be loathed, or be a mere knight and be a champion of the people. all about public perception i feel.

Can't Sophyra just become the king's mistress? Wrap him around her little finger and she'd have control over the entire kingdom through him!!!!

The king is a wimp too, always QQing about something, soph could totally give him the "awww there there" *strokes arm* treatment XD

Shaelyssa wrote:Can't Sophyra just become the king's mistress? Wrap him around her little finger and she'd have control over the entire kingdom through him!!!!

She's been dreaming alot about that actually. I can think of atleast 6 times I've heard her mention that ICly.

Shaelyssa wrote:Can't Sophyra just become the king's mistress? Wrap him around her little finger and she'd have control over the entire kingdom through him!!!!

I think if Varian can avoid a beautiful blonde 'queen' who is devistatingly loyal to him and works in his name who must remind him of his beloved Tiffin he's probably not into a dark skinned hoebag!