OOC hints in emotes

Greetings,

I'd like to discuss a specific aspect of our emoting techniques, namely the use of OOC hints in an IC emote. We all do it, in some form or another, but there are different degrees to which it can be performed and I'd like to hear from you where you consider them good practice and where not.

So what is an OOC hint? I would define it as anything you express that can not, at the time of the emote, be observed directly by another roleplayer with his or her character's IC senses.

It is often used a shortcut to describe an otherwise difficult to express emotion.
For example:
1) "Jean-Pierre hangs his head dejectedly" is an IC description of hanging your head and an OOC hint of doing it in a "dejected" manner.
2) "Jean-Pierre smiles shyly" would be another manner to distinguish the 'shy' smile from a 'neutral' smile.

Technically speaking, a more "pure" approach would be
1) "Jean-Pierre hangs his head and sighs loudly". And we leave it to the other player to 'detect' the emotion behind it.
2) "Jean-Pierre curls his lip to a smile and quickly lowers his eyes, turning red on the cheeks".

In both examples, we risk the emotion being misread... which is both a good and a bad thing. It is good since that can lead to IC misunderstandings, which can lead to conflict, which lead to roleplay. A downside is that the other player might take the emotion the wrong way OOCly, and OOC confusion is best avoided.

But OOC hints aren't limited to technical hints. They can also add to the atmosphere or the style of roleplay. For example this emote is laden with information that could be "unobservable" by third parties. I've underlined them for clarity.
"Redjack reaches for his cold mug filled with beer and grips it firmly, wetting his dry lips in anticipation of the beer's sweet promise of delight, after which he drinks the beer eagerly like a man who'd walked the desert for a week."
Some of these things could be observed, mind you, depending on the character and their position with respect to the subject.

And lastly there is sometimes a hybrid, or people adding IC observeable detail to reveal something otherwise unobservable.
"Redjack slams down his empty mug. The mark of his hand in the condensation on the glass betrays it must have been a cold drink."

The downside, I think, of this technique is that it could "force the other player" to observe something OOCly (reading the entire emote) to learn something the character might not be interested in. And it generally forces more text down someone's throat which doesn't necessarily contribute to the roleplay (depending on the situation).

In particular, I'm researching this kind of emoting for two reasons:
- I'm looking for a way to play a more 'theatrical' style of roleplay where I give more than enough OOC hints for anyone to see where my character will go. The hope here is to hint of what my next step will be, allowing the other player to anticipate or play accordingly in a more "subtily" coordinated manner.

- In particular for emote fighting I think this can increase the communication between players through their emotes and thereby improve the play.

So my question is, again, what method or level of detail do you use and when? Which do you consider good practice and which not?

Cheers,
El Jean-Pierre
Always on the lookout for improvement

Yeah I use this in emote fighting, something like: "XX Swings his battle axe up high for a powerful strike, leaving his torso exposed".

That I feel adds some more flow to the emote fighting and less guessing on both players if they should take a hit now or if they should emote an attack. Sometimes I do more ambiguous ones where the other guy does have to guess however, like:

"After Paragus parry's with his rapier his left hand reaches behind his cloak" leaving the dude to guess if I'm say, reaching for a melee weapon, feeling a wound and being exposed for an attack, or trying to trick them into thinking the other two..

I use ambiguous emotes where the other player has to guess what is happening and react to it outside of emote fighting too. Can be very fun.

Don't really like it when people overemote and give 5 lines of the biggest words they could pick out of their dictionary for their character looking to the side when it's not nessacary at all.

If somebody wants to write lines and lines and lines of flowery prose for just one action, I'm fine with that. If somebody wants to write two words for an emote, I'm fine with that too. I don't think it matters personally either way really, but I think it makes things more interesting to have a more detailed emote rather than a simple one, in most cases.

Of course, I would rather not have to read a paragraph explicitly emphasizing all the intricate details about how somebody is peeing in the bushes or whatever. But in most cases, the small details like "Jean-Pierre curls his lip to a smile and quickly lowers his eyes, turning red on the cheeks" make things more interesting and immersive too, I think.

Either way though, I don't think it matters, because technically, both emotes are still IC. I mean, when you interact with people outside of the game, you still subconsciously pick up on all those signals anyways, like JP's blushing and smile and whatever, and you can tell how the other person is feeling because of that, right? "Vague" emotes are still more fun than the "OOC" ones though!

Also, I don't really do a lot of "emote fighting". If I'm in a situation where my character has to get violent, I will usually just /duel. And sometimes I use short, more concise emotes, and other times, longer, more flowery ones depending on the situation.

Whew. I have admit upon seeing the thread title I was worried that this would be about the rather horrible way some people bring ooc drama/disagreements into emotes (particularly in fights, ie: *Krodgar the Destroyer is amazed that Nippy has dodged all his attacks, even the point blank gunshot to the chest* often laden with sarcastic comments and so forth). Relieved it isn't

I think it's a fine balance between ambiguity and clarity, and the level of hints and cues you give away all depends on the setting, other participants, and your aim.

Ambiguity's probably best avoided if you're just after a straight conversation, have something specific to convey, or are in a situation where ooc confusion could ensue- say in a straight up bar fight with multiple participants, keeping track of who's doing what and how to react accordingly.

However, if it was a tense stand-off with two or three people, in contrast, you might want to keep your internal IC motivations, and so forth, more up to the other people to deduce or misinterpret. Same with intrigue/political scenes in a way.

Given me some interesting things to consider

It really depends on a lot of things. Personally, from that description, I focus on a completely different aspect. How do you define "improvement"? There is no solid one-way road towards it. I can assure you a -completely- ooc "/e facepalms at JP's typo - epic xD" can bring a lot more fun in certain situations than ignoring said typo and writing down an elaborate and void/sterile of "colouring" emotes instead. Would you call it an "improvement" to prefer the latter, on all cases? Even if it's not hindering rp, but instead lighting it up and giving fun to all participants? Then what is the point of improvement, if not to improve?

I'd say go for what feels right. You might get it wrong, yes, but hey that chance's always there. No point in sterilizing everything, rp isn't math - and even math is far more than a singleminded view, if you broaden into the entirety of math instead of the linear "1+1=2" area.

To reply to your question more explicitly: I do as I feel best at the time. If I want to emphasize an attribute of a situation, I will include it in the emote (or, alternatively, inform people ooc'ly elsewhere, perhaps). Yes, they "could" detect it themselves. But our chars lack a LOT to be independant. Your senses tell you a million more things than what an emote can. They are essentially blind out there. So, no, I don't see it wrong to add "cold" in a description at all. It's a different thing if the emote is "/e grabs his cold drink WHICH MAKES YOU JEALOUS", that's a bit over the line there, ofc.

In other cases, I'll welcome the "possible misunderstanding".

In some cases, I'll lighten up with an ooc joke.

It really depends on many factors.

PS: and let's not forget the time disanalogy. You often don't have enough time to properly express everything even if you wanted to, because typing takes much longer than the split second it would take your char to notice all those details with all their senses - and within 3-4 seconds, your emote might become obliterated and off-topic already.

I agree with kit they are annoying. Had some fights where your every response was either ooc emoted or you get a /w. Mostly it comes from RPers who cant seperate good RP from winning i find.

I try and use 'vague' emotes when possible, but if I'm in a very fast-paced scene where I need to get my emotes out quickly, I generally go with the OOC ones. I think it depends and it's not necessarily wrong either way.

You also have to keep in mind that sometimes meaning that a person OOC misses out on the hint in the non OOC-emotes doesn't mean his character would miss understanding the gesture or anything alike. The lines are blurred and I do agree that sometimes it gives a lot more fun and in-depth to not place all details out there.
What I sometimes do is however put two things out there.
*Sharyssa does not seem to respond, looking aside either deeply in thought or simply chosing to ignore the comment*
It's up to the character to see which of the two is her current situation/mood
Or put it in a way that they know it's something thet -can- see but don't -have- to
*... Perhaps the gesture indicates a shy demeanor*

You can combine the two perfectly without having to chose what might be best
and same as Drustai, if it's faster paced my emotes will tone down in detail in order to keep up aswell

I keep it simple in the most part. Purely descriptive:

Jayse glances to his left, flexing his fingers with a furrowed brow..

Jayse passes by with a hand in his pocket, smoking a cigarette..

Jayse simply raises an eyebrow looking you over..

I keep it like the above examples. It's upto your character (and infact you) to determine what he might be doing/thinking. He tends to give as little away as possible, as do I. Thinking is far better then being spoonfed a reaction ^^

Jeanpierre wrote:
It is often used a shortcut to describe an otherwise difficult to express emotion.
For example:
1) "Jean-Pierre hangs his head dejectedly" is an IC description of hanging your head and an OOC hint of doing it in a "dejected" manner.
2) "Jean-Pierre smiles shyly" would be another manner to distinguish the 'shy' smile from a 'neutral' smile.

Technically speaking, a more "pure" approach would be
1) "Jean-Pierre hangs his head and sighs loudly". And we leave it to the other player to 'detect' the emotion behind it.
2) "Jean-Pierre curls his lip to a smile and quickly lowers his eyes, turning red on the cheeks".

Both are valid but as a general rule I'd go for the first example. It's just easier to write than to write emotes 100% RP pure. Pace and timing are important as well in RP. I interpret emotes like "Jean-Pierre hangs his head dejectedly" like I picked up obvious signs as to why Jean-Pierre hang his head, body language etc. Since these signals are often hard to describe I think it is perfectly fine to simplify the emotes. There is a certain risk over acting if you try to go by the second example all the time.

When you play with friends you RP regularly with, players that knows your character and so on then I think the second example is appropriate. It is harder, more challenging, funnier to you and those you play with if you get it to work. Maybe because you don't just read the emotes, you have to think about them as well?

Well I'm certainly not promoting one method over the other as superior, but rather try to discuss when people prefer one over the other and why. What are the "checks" someone makes in that big logical machine in their head to choose the appropriate method?

Frostfeather mentions timing, which I would consider a crucial factor in my choice. If there's a wall of text from emote spams in a crowded area, I'll certainly start making me emotes more directly as I'm expecting it takes enough effort to keep up otherwise.

For Jayse, I can understand the preference for such emotes but I feel that's partly because of the style of the character. The style of a character is inherently bound to the way he's emoted. Would you say you adopt a different type of emoting when RP'ing another character Jayse? I know I do. So would say "style" or "setting" is another deciding factor.

Another strategy I once adopted was 'progressive' within the same RP session, as far as OOC hints is concerned. I had an encounter with another player I didn't know at all. I dare say we were in a tricky situation (OOCly) as we didn't know each other's characters well, but found ourselves in a bit of a fight. In order to "help" the ooc awkward situation, I started playing to the other character's treats as described by FlagRSP. Explicitly incorporating the other character's treats helped us acknowledge our own weaknesses and strengths.
For example (comparable to something I did) "My mage eyes his burly aggressor and then glances at his walking staff. The slightest shake of his head reveals he judges it useless against this opponent and a brief flicker in his eyes can be seen as he tries to tap into ley energies. This might get tricky.".
I believe that certainly increased mutual understanding of each other's characters over shouting "Here's some fireballs to fry your fat ass".
OR "My mage blurts out a word and a large cloud of fiery flames sprouts from his hand. No heat can be felt from the flames however." Where the second line actually hints at it being an illusion.
After a few emotes, the characters might have had sufficient acknowledgement of their strengths and weaknesses for the fight to take a more natural pace... but basically you are feeding the other player enough OOC information to permit them to make "better" choices following their own character.

Paragus wrote:
Don't really like it when people overemote and give 5 lines of the biggest words they could pick out of their dictionary for their character looking to the side when it's not nessacary at all.

This.
It gets a bit too much when someone feels the need to describe the simplest of things like how their shiny glimmering silky soft hair waves in the wind....and turn it into a 3-5 rows long emote >.<

To be perfectly honest, I've roleplayed with quite a few people (though with not nearly as many as most of you have) but I have to admit that roleplaying with the player behind Jeanpierre and his alts has always been an absolute delight.
I often fail at understanding where some people take their characters with emotes, or then I simply missed a (usually not so obvious) clue.
However, when JP uses the more extensive methods -whether he adds OOC information or not- which he described above, there's a 99% chance I'll understand almost completely what's happening and will be able to follow up on it.

Being vague in your emotes allows for a lot of interpretation, which -most of the time- ends up being MISinterpretation and leads the RP on a wrong path, resulting in both IC and OOC issues.
When you add some OOC information to the emotes, it makes it more fun and easy to stay on track. You can still derail the whole conversation by ignoring the OOC hints on purpose, if you wish.
Of course, one emote consisting of a wall of text defeats the purpose of using emotes. If you are feeling -that- creative, write a book.

Perhaps some people do not like the OOC comments. To them, it might feel as if they are being pulled out of their RP immersion. You have to keep in mind though that this is merely a game, and not everyone is as good at RP'ing or understanding small hints as you are.
Though I have no issues with people who stay 200% IC at all times, I prefer to RP with people who can take things more lightly at times - though this is perhaps food for another topic.

Point being: if I had to choose, I would prefer emotes with some OOC information attached to them (like JP's beer filled mug example). It just adds more colour to the conversation. Whether you pick up on the extra information is up to you.

As the player I like the ooc hints it helps with immersion, picture paintings and all that, but mostly there just isn't the time for it. you can't emote every single little part of body language in certain respects since there just isn't enough time. at most you can Feign an emotion or a hint of emotion.

That said with emote fights as much as I dislike them I prefer giving OOC information in the emote itself as to the purpose of the attack, to both paint a picture and to avoid sending a whisper after every emote.

as in

Amaryl lunges with her sword towards Bob's right shoulder. Could this be a feint?

Here clearly this is the step up to my next move, and gives Bob a proper way to react instead of just countering with the new random attack.

Amaryl swings her sword, launching a bale of light towards Bob, hoping to mess-up the aim of his gun.

And here its clearly an indication of the "damage this attack would do, would it be "successful"