Thugs How we bastard Rp and a concencus on best practise

This is generally the most logical way to integrate quik thieves into GENERAL RP. By that I mean in a non W-PvP situation.

General Use of Brawlers, Bawlers and Bastards - The General use of street urchins in roleplay when your character does not possess a magical means, or that fine, maney years of assassin education. There are a number of reasons the use of em Bastards adds to the roleplay, such as:

In the streets - Strolling down a back alley or a main street, where ever these sneak thieves go they will add some proper immersion for everyone.

Bothering you - These beggars and newsboys and quick thieves here in the district, the sailor dives and gin mills and blind tigers on the Waterfront, the anglers and amusers, the she-hes and frepps are all more or less lacking in proper education, and as in general with that comes narrowmindness. Fear, superstition, paranoia all hauls from it; racism. Even if these light forsaken chracters have nothing to do with you, they will sure offer you some RP.



Criminals and Guards - A cut-throat will and should never go up against a well drilled, heavily armoured guard, expecting to win. A single guard should on his hand never go up against a gang of ten back stabbing Miner boys, expecting to win. Mutual respect is the keyword here. They both need each other, giving rp to the other side to work with.

How we are rough, but not unbeatable - With the attitude of these poor souls of the lower classes, comes maney arguments. And with arguments comes the fists. And a street thug is no great samuray-ninja warrior, it's throwing fists and heads, sometimes a stiff kick. Flying round houses, dropkick two barreled shotgun hi-low crouching tiger stuff is NOT what the usual street thugs do.



Defeatable - Yes you can fights us, you can even send your filthy sneak thieves, base defilers unworthy any noble name, but sticks and stones cant break our bones.
Fight the rising tide of criminality, we support this, we want this. Win over us, have us rot in your rotting jail cells, this we want too.
But we will come back, with a vengance. Unless, we've grown to old.


I want you'r thoughts on this.

With best intentions.

Well done, that's talking.

Let's write something about weapons and armors as well: how can commoners afford them, or learn to use them properly?

The whole ideas on best practise I give a double thumbs up. I like you're angle as it employs alot of common sense and basic human psycology.

As for the give and take, you know I back that fully. Having played a character for a long time now that always seems to get his arse handed to him.

Cause an effect shown a definate plus! It's all good being a vigilante wanting to clean up the streets but you will quickly become a target.. is it best to just steer clear? And vice versa in terms of the law.

The only issues I have and in RP in general now is the whole buisness of emotefighting. Personally.. I have very much grown to hate it in general. But when it's done propperly (and by 'propperly' I mean people taking into account due cause and effect, theoretical ability and simple physical capability and time given a set situation) it's an absolutly fantasic game of chess. Just on the whole now I tend to avoid it whenever I can.

Otherwise gogol m'ol son. Looks good indeed.

PS: Just please one thing I ask.. Less firearms and less random shootings in the city? IC I wouldn't carry a pistol if it wern't for the fact that when in the city Jayse used to get shot at.. -at least- once a week..

Weapons?
That I leave up to you.
Bricks, bats, axes, knives.. Pistols?
No pistols.
Good boy.

Gogol wrote:Weapons?
That I leave up to you.
Bricks, bats, axes, knives.. Pistols?
No pistols.
Good boy.

I knew you'd post it!

Regarding outfits: either commoners' clothes (shirts, waistcoats, simple pants and worn boots) or some simple leather armors, like trappers' or poachers' ones, nothing ninja-like for sure.

Or, when you use a blunderbuss, you emote it out fully.
Pour blasting powder in barrel
Drop shot in barrel
Pour more blasting powder.
Prod down shot
Cock weapon
Aim
Shoot
(chance of missing due to being old technology, or misfiring)

And also... Which thief goes around with ear-pieces, radios, walkie-talkies and such? Where have letters, couriers, rumours and or word-of-mouth news gone?

WORD UP ZINKLE PREACH THE TRUTH
If you're carrying that equipment you shouldn't be on the streets hustling, you should be behind enemy lines innit blad.

ten back stabbing Miner boys

Being tired I totally misread this part wrong. However all in all a good read and sums up of how its done.

Zinkle Figgins wrote:And also... Which thief goes around with ear-pieces, radios, walkie-talkies and such? Where have letters, couriers, rumours and or word-of-mouth news gone?

I never really do like the whole radio concept. Prefer letters and messengers.

Also nice read.

Something I wrote a while ago, still useful if not RPing a ninja:

Criminals are bastards. Criminals cheat. And cheating is our strongest weapon. With our craftiness we’re able to defeat stronger and better-equipped opponents, without even being hit. Here are a few tips.

• Outnumber your enemy. If you manage to sorround him and take out your weapons, he won’t even have the chance to fight, since he’d been knocked out istantly. A good way to mug people without any particular effort.
  
• Lure. Luring is a good way to take your target where you want and when you want. Tell him a friend of yours need help, or that there’s an emergency, he’d surely follow you. Combine this with the previous tip, hiding your gang somewhere and taking your target to them.
  
• Surprise. Ambushes are probably the best way to force your enemy to surrender, since he would have never expected such a thing. You’d probably catch him disarmed and wearing his plain clothes if you await for him in the right spot (outside pubs, near churches or around the several rp hubs).
  
• Play dirty. Use any means necessary to take your opponent down. Throw him dust on his eyes, kick him in the groin, put his cloak on his head, disarm him etc.
  
• Run. If you’re having problems taking down your opponent, don’t feel ashamed, just run away and hide. Next time you’ll be luckier.

Zinkle, I like. Good work.

I just watched gangs of new york for the first time last night.

Thats how gangs in WoW should be. ó.ó

Ovelia "Snow" Adair wrote:I just watched gangs of new york for the first time last night.

Thats how gangs in WoW should be. ó.ó

They already are: that's the attitude we try to have and the ambience we're working on.

Zinkle Figgins wrote:Something I wrote a while ago, still useful if not RPing a ninja:

Criminals are bastards. Criminals cheat. And cheating is our strongest weapon. With our craftiness we’re able to defeat stronger and better-equipped opponents, without even being hit. Here are a few tips.

• Outnumber your enemy. If you manage to sorround him and take out your weapons, he won’t even have the chance to fight, since he’d been knocked out istantly. A good way to mug people without any particular effort.
  
• Lure. Luring is a good way to take your target where you want and when you want. Tell him a friend of yours need help, or that there’s an emergency, he’d surely follow you. Combine this with the previous tip, hiding your gang somewhere and taking your target to them.
  
• Surprise. Ambushes are probably the best way to force your enemy to surrender, since he would have never expected such a thing. You’d probably catch him disarmed and wearing his plain clothes if you await for him in the right spot (outside pubs, near churches or around the several rp hubs).
  
• Play dirty. Use any means necessary to take your opponent down. Throw him dust on his eyes, kick him in the groin, put his cloak on his head, disarm him etc.
  
• Run. If you’re having problems taking down your opponent, don’t feel ashamed, just run away and hide. Next time you’ll be luckier.

This is how we have been doing allways, but the problem lies here. For example, you ambush the person and then he / she suddenly dodges or blocks it, or even worse. Counters it immediately, saying he / she sensed it or just did it on reflex. Too much OPness and ninjain' going around. Just few days earlier i saw this one guy climb 7m (or more) high wall within just few seconds to escape. People don't want to lose. I've had sometimes really hard time of finding good victims or the like.

Raviran wrote:This is how we have been doing allways, but the problem lies here. For example, you ambush the person and then he / she suddenly dodges or blocks it, or even worse. Counters it immediately, saying he / she sensed it or just did it on reflex. Too much OPness and ninjain' going around. Just few days earlier i saw this one guy climb 7m (or more) high wall within just few seconds to escape. People don't want to lose. I've had sometimes really hard time of finding good victims or the like.

I've been rping my thief for a few days now Alliance side, and I never had any trouble finding victims for more subtle kinds of thievery. I do things like offer to show people magic tricks, ask them for a coin, then "magic" it into a butterfly or make it disappear and keep it

Thought I nearly got my sould eaten after following someone last night

Raviran wrote:
This is how we have been doing allways, but the problem lies here. For example, you ambush the person and then he / she suddenly dodges or blocks it, or even worse. Counters it immediately, saying he / she sensed it or just did it on reflex. Too much OPness and ninjain' going around. Just few days earlier i saw this one guy climb 7m (or more) high wall within just few seconds to escape. People don't want to lose. I've had sometimes really hard time of finding good victims or the like.

My point exactly. People lack a basic form of situational awareness and general cause and effect. Alot of the reason I really don't emotefight anymore. I remember something a while back. A guy was harrassing guards and for some reason (rather stupidly) decided it would be a good idea to try and flee into the SI:7 courtyard. (I know right?) Anyway, just happened as Jayse was limping out the main door, saw what was going on and as the guy was distracted by the sheilds, simply put a gun to his head..

Now you would think you had no other choice.. but this guy was 'apparantly' wearing a TNT strapped vest he suddenly uncovered.. so.. given that situation with a pistol at pointblank range to his head and not willing to allow it to both detonate and kill himself and the sheilds gathered. He shot..

The bullet miracilously deflected from his sword..

One of -many- countless examples. The guy had plenty of chance OOCl'y to determine what his actions were doing, in that getting his character killed.. and continued to show this rather cavalir attitude to being both over dramatic and focused on winning.

He was simply too busy being awesome.. >_>

There is a difference though between being silly like in jayze example and just having no desire to be mugged/ambushed/beaten/stabbed/shot at that time and suddenly being surrounded by four thugs, with blue-ribboned dapperhats. and tries to just get out of the situation ICly without actually ignoring the situation infront(the four thugs) of him/her as OoC.

Sure it sometimes gets weird. and silly and slightly unrealistic. but alas.

personally i despise emote fights in any other setting beyond a 1 vs 1 since it just gets into a clusterfuck always with no time to actually do something sincewhile people stand around being bored or act out of turn turning the shit into a mess. though sometimes it can get enjoyable and well done. but usually the random emote fights aren't.

Just drop your coin purse on the ground and run, that's all we criminals ask. Do you think we like risking our lives because of some hot-blooded folks? And also, if not interested just contact in whisper those involved, and they'll gladly leave you alone, since it's surely not our interest to annoy others.

I sometimes wonder why people get so defensive over a bit of alternative RP to the typical cuddly crap they're used to. It's not like we're out to steal their real-yet-virtual gold or the mugging will wreck their imaginary RP lives.

I've rarely been confronted with criminal RP unless it was an attempt to seriously injure my character. Stealing my purse, hell... you can have two for all I care. I'll probably have a good time OOCly.
But it's the excess of violence that trained my reluctance to participate. One second you're saying "uh?", the next you find your character being cut into 4 pieces and scattered around Azeroth. It's not always clear when you see guys around you with blades which way it's going to go.

Mind you, this is not necessarily directed at some of the names I see on this topic. I must say the Forlorn Cartel, among other guilds, has given me some fun times in the past and always respected me as a player OOCly. In fact... most affiliated criminals did. Or proved approachable OOCly.

I can only encourage a best practice as it mentioned above. Good work. I hope this will help criminal to the fun RP it should be!

"New" people in the circle of criminal awsome generally think they are along the lines of mister van cleef, possibly Naruto. These people require patience and OOC communication. Most people that've had bad "rp" experiences in these scenario's have had them with either brand new roleplayers or general ninja douchebags who still dont understand that RP is actually a group thing rather then a solo activity. Now I know most of these things have been said before in a way so I'd just like to add my two cents.

These things require alot of patience from both sides, or rather acceptance. You decide yourself what your character hears, his response and in some way the outcome

The criminals should understand that the people they jump can also be new, unexperienced with the kind of roleplay or generally horrible douchebags. You need to talk to them or just walk away, rping it out it doesnt take too much creativity neither.

The opposite side should understand that we are there to create the roleplay with you! People tend to need excuse to approach others since even though it's just a game some of us are still horribly shy. If something happends that you do not want to happen just whisper the bandit and tell him you have a serious problem with it. I'd generally expect them to save the situation. I would. If the bandit in question starts laying down the rules of physics on you and desperately tries to push the whole thing on and on and on just cut the whole thing off. Rather a slightly odd rp situation then the typical drama that we love to poison ourselves with on this server.

I accidentaly made a long post, this was not my intention but it just got me going, heck I was planning on writing something else but this turned out alright.

Regarding the emotes and emote wars, I agree they are a pain but it does need to be clear that these thugs mean business! We dont actually strive for brawls they just always seem to happen.

I've been put off emote fights because of how ridiculas some just are, and how eager some people are to go jump people. The worst thing about it is alot of people don't just OOCly ask if I'm up for it. I was standing at cathedral waiting to be summoned for a raid and a ravenholdt and a dark sphere came up and "X attempts to disarm perturbo" while "Y draws weapons". I found this very unrealistic as it's at the top of a church, not exactly a secluded place. Another time I was being lured and when I went the wrong way the guy whispers me telling me I have to go this way, not mentioning I was being lured, and meplanning to log off.

I don't mean to whine, I just hope the leaders of criminal guilds can help their members with these type of things. I've noticed some new type criminals and they just don't seem to understand about being fair.

That being said this guide really does help with it, and if everyone follows it there will be some really enjoyable RP out of it. I've done some roleplay fights with a good few people from Krickle's Gang and Forlorn and it's been really enjoyable. I had a texas standoff on my rogue outside the old town tavern and it was really cool, and the criminals actually took hits xD. Another one was where my gnome mage ended up in a fight with quinian and chase and we both tried to make the fight as fair as possible. I tried my hardest not to be super overpowered with magic, like /e casts kamehameha, and he was very fair with letting me escape, he even whispered me after and said he enjoyed how I was able to RP magic without being invincible.

I'm also a supporter of No radios or pistols, it's just a tad too easy and boring. Rumors and letters are way better.

I encountered a drug dealer a few nights ago openly selling and offering all kinds of dusts/potions/pills in the middle of the Cathedral district, I was on my shady toon and asked him if he thought the word "Shady business" had some other meaning for him since he so openly dealed with these things (Meaning the drugs) and that he should probably be more careful unless the guards catch wind of his dealings and he gets in trouble.

The person just shrugged and said he doesn't care since <insert generic tough guy who has been in prison speech>, atleast he could do this kind of business in the more shady parts of town where such activities are more common practice.

As for the emote fights, they can be a headache and they can be quite enjoyable when for instance as mentioned above you gather in a party chat, involve some rolls to see what happens/who wins and have fun. And as for the thug business, I do not mind beeing jumped by them ebul fellas, I even quite enjoyed several encounters with the criminal contingent on my mage.

However, the naruto styled thugs/assasins/zombie-pirate ninjas who are half naaru, half vampire and have wierd magic shooting out of all orifices alongside with carrying so many guns that it would put a german blitzkrieg to shame, kind of make me weary when encountering people from the criminal contingent who I am not familiar with, well unless they are people who I`ve had the pleasure of RPing with before or watched RPing, its not that I`ll avoid them, I`ll just be careful since as the good guys can sometimes do some quite silly and overkill stuff stupidity wise, so can the bad guys, and after that you are rather careful before you engage in this sort of RP.

TL;DR version; Communication, patience and hrm.. a rather good mood when dealing with these things is the key to success at having a great time. Thumbs up to the baddies for providing us with so much trouble to deal with!

I raise this thread.