IC going OOC and OOC going IC.

Dear Defias Brotherhood.

I post this with deep thoughts of the ups and downs to posting my thoughts. As I do know that some will react with a sigh and think that I am just out to whine a little.
For some days now I have been considering not to post it, but today I find my self in a state of mind saying that:

This is just a game. And this post will maybe make someone think a little harder on what they say to people they don’t know. In the best outcome someone will reconsider their views on others and in the worst: I am just that old hag sticking her nose where it doesn’t belong^^ But it’s a game and a community so when you read this please have an open mind, and see it for what it is.. A wake up call not a whine. Just a woman’s thoughts and wishes for the community she is a part of to be even better.

I have been back here now for a few months after a while on the horde side and when I returned I made sure people would not go: “Oh, who are you really”. As I am one of those who prefer my characters to be separated.

And I was in my return reminded of why I like it that way.

During an IC happening with Imanuel (Yes, I have asked for Imanuel permission to use him as an example here) I was spammed with whispers like these:

“Oh heck.. Do you know who that is? You cant disagree with him. That will make you look bad and so on..”

This is not the first time people have poked me to not disagree with players that others know to be or have been “powerful” and “respected” on this server.

I find it sad to see and hear people breaking their IC responses and views to seemingly “please” - “elite” - players. Do note I consider the “elite” players to be by this definition: The role-player’s who genuinely seems to have been here for a long time, contributed to the rp community and seem to be respected by most role-players out there.

When I came here back here now, like I always seem to do: I saw a post made by Andrek on the forum discussing the “closing out” new players thing that some agreed had been going on for a long while here I was so happy. As I too have considered the rp community as a whole to not seem to welcome new players in the past. But with that post I saw hope and in time I did see that people have grown and become more open minded and welcoming to “new” people despite level or lack of recognising their names. So for that I am truly happy.


But like with the first mentioned scene with Imanuel I have had a few more of those. Working as a SI:7 agent means.. I will have to dig for dirt on people, ministers, nobles anyone.. And even suggesting to dig for dirt on certain people has given me responses ooc like these:

“If you try to go again this or that person your whole rp on this character is doomed. If you even suspect that person for anything you will end up dead, or just be ignored by the rp community…”

Do note: Its not the so called: “old rp - elites” that says this.. But other people seems to be so worried about going against those in power that they feel the need to warn those who plays their characters and does their jobs.

I don’t blame those they warn me about, that is not the case here. As do note: Imanuel which is used as an example here did not end up dooming me, but gave me a lot of nice rp. Not that Sith/Indranie will agree on IC’ly that Imanuel is a nice person *cough*.

When I told Imanuel of the responses given to the fact that I went 100 percent against something he was about to do, he seemed shocked. His reaction was to ask why someone would fear him, or even say something like that. And like I have said earlier to more than just him: I don’t know… Imanuel didn’t doom my character for working against his. Quite the opposite, we declared ooc’ly a war with huge smiley’s and still talk ic and ooc.


I do strongly hope and believe that the other considered to be “elite role-players” are as surprised and don’t actually use their ic respect against others players ic’ly..

This may be taken as a concern that most would laugh about.. In this writing time I am soon to turn 24. I am still young but considering that the age limit of this game is 12+ and I have been around for 4 years + and return to still find this to be “warnings” ooc’ly given to my character by people who has no idea if I know the people its about or not.. Makes me worried.

I am my character may it be this or that one. And opposing someone who is known to be well connected and powerful is not something I consider a problem that needs to be warned about ooc’ly..

I have no idea how this “view” and these whispers can be stopped but I haven’t had any character “doomed” or “ignored” by the server because I have not wagged my tail and done the wishes of the mighty men and women on Defias. I would still though love for people to stop worrying so much about what other people may think?

Like Imanuel said and I don’t have the exact quote here: “I don’t have the power to doom someone’s character… Why would they even think so? Why does people fear anyone this way? “

In this I share Imanuel’s view.. I don’t get why people think they should wag their tails.. I have yet to see any minister of Stormwind or leader of The Dark Sphere being able to cause a through out /ignore on a player because one or two doesn’t agree with their ways of role-playing, works against them, or what ever you may think of. But for 4+ years I have had more than one account on this realm and this is not a “right now” kind of thing.

And for another problem:

When I get involved with any kind of rp. I don’t and wont /ignore someone who is trying to get involved with the RP going on just because someone asks me to or don’t like the person. If one has a closed rp event, keep it away from the main city. And if someone acts stupid, foolishly, and doesn’t seem to know the basic rules of RP but does try… At least show the rookies the curtsey to be spoken to ooc’ly in a polite manner before asking others to ignore the player without any reason too.

At least don’t ask me too. As it wont solve a problem but simply pass it on to others.

Also:

It is hard to know who as likes or dislikes each other both IC’ly and OOC’ly. I put my nose where it doesn’t belong again and I suppose some will be less happy with me because of this but I don’t really mind.

I usually don’t think about asking random people if they dislike this or that person oocly before I bring up an IC issue with someone. It will always happen that certain people due to ic things going to hell, or ooc reasons, don’t get along.

But it a sad thing when people keeps grudges and even with years or months still wont interact with each other if possible. Some dislikes can not be solved. But some can. People do change over time.

And I am sure many recognises themselves on that they don’t like everyone on this server and one doesn’t need too. But it is sad when you approach someone who IC’ly should be interested in the matter, refuses to because they don’t like this or that person. My question here is…

Is it not a new year? Can not all be mature enough if the reason isn’t deeply sever and serious, consider to let past be past? To give people a new shot? A new chance?

Put old quarrels aside and try to just forget the past, shake hands and play your characters? What is it when people need to make sure ( a bit over exaggerated this but still) who people like or don’t like before including them in rp.. That in the worst case scenario ends up like this: /e forget this ever happened, I was never here.. I don’t rp with… etc… ?

Or a shit load of massive ooc stories in my whisper box telling me of this and that person and what she or he has said and done.. I don’t mind listening to people when they are worried or want to share a view. But I don’t need a long list of why I should side with this or that person.. I am not Indranie.. I am me.. And I as a person I don’t tend to dislike people, I just don’t seem to manage which is why I cant play an evil character either as I end up feeling bad after a while^^ So please. Try to keep IC, IC and keep the OOC dislikes out of my whisper box?^^

Totally! I hear ya. You've got no idea how much OOC hate I've gotten because Ath isn't the nicest person IC!

I agree, IC and OOC should be seperated as much as possible.

I still remember the chuckles in /w with Orfide and Jondalar for our IC "clashing" with Valgor. Totally agreed, there, no matter how ooc feelings may humanly affect IC behaviour to some measure, people need to separate IC from OOC. And I've yet to be "warned" oocly about icly disagreeing to a "known RPer", I'd chuckle with whomever whispered, if it happened ^^

Completely agree. I think however that the problem lies with the players that see the "elites" as so powerful. Really for once it's not the ellitism you have to whine at, as you said Imanuel doesn't regard himself as powerful... The problem is people take IC respect OOC. Which is pointless, glad you brought this up so that others can learn this.

I've had my fair share of people hunting me ICly or suddenly appearing to kill me just because of an OOC proplem.

Even more common is similiar to Aesthetic's proplem. Dharum can be very rude character ICly and uses alot of verbal abuse (I once got suspended for it), I have tried doing it less but it feels pretty critical part to the character, but more than often I get into OOC proplems because of that.

uses alot of verbal abuse (I once got suspended for it)

Bharker has been banned for 'racism' because his Troll called a Blood Elf a "lesser race". Enough said, really -.-

I'm quite astounded to hear about this. I've never -ever- seen or heard such a case on the Horde side, where I at times even encourage a bit of rebellious behaviour against Koz for example (him being a Chieftain).

Just yesterday, I had someone who tried to challenge him for the right over some prey he and some others had been hunting for weeks. As soon as it came to a fight, the 'rebel' got beaten and even swore his loyalty in an attempt at forgiveness. On our OOC channel, everyone just laughed.

What I'm trying to say is, I don't see what's wrong with trying to disrespect or stand up to any high-valued people, be it IC or OOC (I don't consider myself either, because in the end, all orcs are just bait for some dwarf's scope). Maybe your character has a death wish - at least if they choose to challenge some high-ranked individual - or maybe they don't even know who this person is they're talking to. Either way, I see no reason to whisper that person to go "OMG DO U KNOW WHO U TALKING TO???".

Thing is, I've a feeling a -lot- of people would get that way if -they- were standing in that high-ranked individual's shoes too - most likely because they're a little inexperienced or, indeed, take things a little too seriously. I've seen them before.

Breaking it down, in my opinion: Bad RPers tend to mix IC and OOC in the same direction that your topic says. But as much as IC and OOC shouldn't mix, you always have to remember that you can always choose not to RP with someone. You're RPing for your own enjoyment, and not to give fuel to someone's illusion about OOC power over what's IC.

That said, I've never really run into an occasion like this that I can recall since I started RPing on Alliance here in WotLK again.

Hmmm. I know what you mean. There seems to be this little group of well-respected people that no one wants to oppose, for fear of being excluded. It is indeed a problem, because that means that someone may act completely OOC just to agree with the 'VIRP' (very important role player).

The point that I am trying to make here is that players behave that way because some VIRP's demand them to do so. I'm not proud of it, but I have complied to such demands in the past. After reading this thread, though, I will no longer do so.

Thank you. :3

(PS: nowaaai, I'm totally 23 too! XD Coincidence? I think not, captain 'astings... It is faith! *puts on little bowler hat and walks away*)

Edit: deleted the TL;DR part, I read it again and realised I was whining. Ugh. Sorry~

Indeed.

Agreed on all points and kudos for a well written post. I hope the DB community will open up even more as well(or maybe it has since I went for my break). Every server need a steady influx of new players and in our case, roleplayers. It's an issue I discuss a lot with Andrek and Melny. AD has managed nicely and I hope we can turn all of this old stuff around a bit and make DB the best RP server again.

I think we need a lot more RP events that's open to everyone, and not just guilds.

As for the old-school elitism, I hope people realize this as well and do not hold back on ideas that they fear might be condemned by any such person. The community as a whole is who makes the decisions and has the power to change what needs to be changed.

As for mixing IC and OOC, it should never, ever, ever be done. But it will still happen due to subconscious thoughts. The best one can do (IMO of course) is to keep focused and constantly remind yourself you are playing a character and not an avatar of yourself.

Sorry if my post is a bit choppy btw. :3

LOL NOOB RP! Gonna ignore you lol noob rp dont rp with me hahaha, rofl some new time noob rp with me, haha what is this noobforum?

On a cereal note;

Aye, the problem of people being too elite and too cool to be RP'd with is a great issue even in DB. I myself wouldn't care and RP with anyone and everything and be RP'd with regardless.

I don't think you should offer those people the oppertunity. If people want to act haughty and elitist, you should just ignore it and not grant them extra respect or anything at all just act as if your character would.

Besides, mostly its just assumptions. Everyone wants to RP.

As one of the persons being mentioned in the thread (being the current leader of TDS) I will tell you this:

I would never, ever, even in my wildest dreams even consider fighting certain characters OOCly or with OOC means.

If you attempt to fight my character ICI will, given who I am, hunt you like a dog IC and send as much IC trouble as I can in your general direction, but I will not take the fight with me when we go OOC.

That cleared out, I will also give my full support to the views presented in the original post.
Keeping OOC and IC seperated is the first and foremost rule when it comes to roleplaying, from my point of view. Yet it is the thing that causes most trouble and drama.

Mordazan wrote:(being the current leader of TDS:
That cleared out, I will also give my full support to the views presented in the original post.
Keeping OOC and IC seperated is the first and foremost rule when it comes to roleplaying, from my point of view. Yet it is the thing that causes most trouble and drama.

I sure hope your guild incorporates these ideals, then!

needless to say, my members aren't as mindless minion-ish as I would like them to be

TDS strives to teach our members to keep OOC and IC strictly seperated, especially since we are likely to have a lot of IC enemies and we wouldn't want them as OOC enemies aswell.

Mordazan wrote:As one of the persons being mentioned in the thread (being the current leader of TDS) I will tell you this:

I would never, ever, even in my wildest dreams even consider fighting certain characters OOCly or with OOC means.

If you attempt to fight my character ICI will, given who I am, hunt you like a dog IC and send as much IC trouble as I can in your general direction, but I will not take the fight with me when we go OOC.

That cleared out, I will also give my full support to the views presented in the original post.
Keeping OOC and IC seperated is the first and foremost rule when it comes to roleplaying, from my point of view. Yet it is the thing that causes most trouble and drama.

I should have made something clear here: The mentioning of all the ministers, the leader of the dark sphere was a general mentioning and not the current or pointing fingers at^^ Just an example of who as is considered as "elite role-players"^^

I didn't have to read her post to know what to write.

OOC should -NEVER- be taken to IC.
IC should -NEVER- be taken to OOC.

It's quite funny to see how some people are labeled as "elite role-players" or VIRPs (very important role players). I frankly have no clue how they even get labeled as such. Perhaps it's because some of them are truly on a high horse due to their position in the RP scene and bluntly refuse to RP with those 'below' them. However, some of them never showed this kind of attitude but got labeled as elitists regardless, just because of their IC standing.

How this is relevant to the thread? Well, obviously, one becomes an RP elitist OOCly, for whatever reason, be it a just one or not. It happens in whisper/gchat/partychat gossip. Having this OOC knowledge will make people automatically avoid said person ICly. So yeah, yet another example of mixing up IC and OOC.

On a side note: personally I agree with most things said but people have to understand that in some cases it's impossible to separate IC and OOC. If let's say I was to have an OOC argument with someone, one that didn't necessarily involve any IC matters and which would go too far, including really nasty personal insults, I truly couldn't see myself RPing with said person. It's very much like this in real life as well. I doubt anyone would enjoy going out or working with a person they dislike. The only option remaining there is to simply avoid each other.

I want to believe that barely any cases of OOC dislike are this extreme. Most OOC arguments are indeed born because of IC conflicts and that's really not necessary.

Keeping OOC and IC separate is a must, otherwise we get drama..and nobody likes drama. Arguments and fight between RP'ers do more dammage to the community then all the OOC'ers put together.

The veteran roleplayers here should go about and help the new ones, you'll see that you'll be getting the OOC respect for it wich is, in my opinion, far better then IC respect.

Oh and remember...it's just a game.

The veteran roleplayers here should go about and help the new ones, you'll see that you'll be getting the OOC respect for it wich is, in my opinion, far better then IC respect.

BTW, I'll take the occasion offered in this thread to say that in <Whitestar> we have different new and fresh role player which have no experience. When me and Elenoza migrated on this server (and Elenoza never had Rped before), we had been followed by some of our dear friends from our previous server wich was PVP. So I've like 5 members which just RP for the first time. They enjoy it a lot, and I'm pretty amazed about their progress ! Excuse them if you see them doing some mistake, they are really doing their best and there is some use which take some time before to get rid off. (For instance "u" instead of "you" and some smiley can appears even while roleplaying.)
Be nice with them, please ! They are also very very shy and need to be encouraged

I personally don't see a situation where I would OOCly dislike a person whose character I dislike ICly. I do however get annoyed by people who have problems seeing the difference between OOC and IC. It's just a fecking game, why get so upset about it? >.>

RP without IC conflicts is boring tbh. I have nothing against my characters getting into arguements or even physically assaulted if it goes that far. There are people who my characters hate so much that they would gladly see them dead, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy RPing with them.

One good example is the Sixty Thieves. My priest has been robbed and mugged by them several times and although she is pissed off, I am not. I give those guys a thumbs up for keeping up the bad guy -RP. Without the bad guys, RPing would be a lot more boring

On another note:
I try my best to give attention to new players, even if I am in the middle of a IC conversation with someone I know. I don't deliberately ignore anyone, unless it's someone who is just OOCly harassing me.

There are no elite-rpers, wtf. :[

Except for Imanuel.

Getting pissed off OOC happens for various reasons. People taking their IC excuses for behaviour far too far, for example (People that've been around in Sin Belore for a while will know what I mean there.).

Yes it is bad, although don't go and rage on someone for doing it. Take into account the situation that it happened in and if they are actually right to be annoyed.

To add some wise words people tend to forget:

"It is not I as the character that shapes who I am. It is I as a person who shapes my characters into parts of me and parts of what I am not. So do not take the first impression of the pixles walking and talking, do not judge by the acts and ways of a pile of pixles. For there is more than one character hiding the true soul and personality of the person hiding even further out.. Behind the screen "

Just thought it would be a wise little note to add.. There are people hidden behind the characters. They are Not their characters ^^

Too many seems to forget that. And as a woman who has been hated on some chars, adored on others during the past years and who has listened to people speak well of one account and bad about her second. And with all the threads of "harsh" words from various people about various people.. I ask you all to look deep down inside.

For none of us despite age or gender are flawless. We all judge here and there. OOC and IC is not the same. One char to the other is not the same.

People may fight for their chars rights to be who they are.. But that does not mean.. That they are their characters. We do reflect or so I assume, Parts and sides of our personalities into the characters we play.. Or parts we wish we were. We shape dreams, personalities and ways that we can not accomplish on our own.

We make "fantasy". Hate someone's fantasy and ways, dislike it, be frustrated, it is all a part of the game. But that is where it ends.

Despite the efforts, time, dreams and hopes, sweat and tears, laughs and joys.. When all comes to all.. It is a game. When it gets out of hand, instead of raging.. Log out.. Calm down and rethink your own words, actions. Was this your character alone reacting? Was it you? Are you as your own person influencing your character to such depths that you get sad or upset?

If that is the case. Rethink, log on, talk.. But do so when calm and not enraged. As in most cases the people you get angry at, are usually - behind the scene- really awesome people.

And those really awesome people.. Are usually working just as hard as you for their character to be how they want it to be.. And have put the same effort into what they do. So what if the person is 50 years old, 13? Does it matter if they play in a decent way? Does it matter if their ways dont agree with yours? Is that not half of the fun of the game when paths collide? When unexpected things happen? Do you not miss walking down the street on your character and suddenly realise that the night you thought would be calm and boring, wont be? When a stranger pops out of nowhere and brings you into a new world, unlike the one you imagined? ^^

Open your minds, let in the new and unexpected. Accept that things dont always go one way. And enjoy it.. For life is not going to be as expected in one way or the other. Inside world of warcraft or outside.

Smile, and do know that when you smile.. Others will smile to

Aesthetic wrote:Totally! I hear ya. You've got no idea how much OOC hate I've gotten because Ath isn't the nicest person IC!

I agree, IC and OOC should be seperated as much as possible.

Yes, you are a bastard Ath, but heck, your character is awesome. You're like the crazy villager, only much more awesome.

Keep up the good work!