Moderators, a discussion.

I'm the cat, you're the dog. Although sillyness asides, you shouldn't be able to just ban OOC replies from a topic like that. If an anonymous person on the forums (even if ICly) spreads slander (even if it is based on facts), it is only natural that people wonder who it can be, and want to pinpoint the source of it. Removing posts and cocntent over such silly comments is just... silly, actually. But heh, two cents!

In my humble oppinion, it is not the moderators job to dictate what can and what cannot be said on the boards.

They should rule in accordance with the rules posted for the boards. Just like it is done IRL.
Whoever did this serioiusly overstepped his/her rights in my oppinion.

If each and every mod has the right to decide wether something is relevant or not and can delete as they please, the posts made on these boards will be highly one sided and biased.

In short: Create rules and enforce them. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If a mod speaks, it should be clear wether they are talking as mods or as players. A player can say "I'm annoyed by this-and-this" but a mod can actually enforce ones will, which carries a responsability, objectivity etc.
If the mods freely rule what is appropriate and what is not, then these boards will only hold posts in accordance with their wishes, which kinda defeats the purpose.

I'm not sure who made that post, but I think whatever mod posted that, aimed to do that with the intention of preventing the IC topics from derailing into OOC discussions. If this is the case, then I reckon there ought to be no problem with having an OOC discussion about it in the game related forums. This may just be me misinterpreting things however, as I'm not fully up to date with the whole Voice thing.

Also. Ewwww, furries.

Agreed with Shorgan, Mordazan and Gogol. Nothing more needs to be added I feel, all that's been said has been.

I can add something.

Treating the topic like that is incredibly freedom suppressing; this forum isn't China, you know.

If people aren't allowed to discuss things after an IC post has been made, it doesn't mean the thread HAS to be a full-blown RP, does it? If this Voice of the People is such a threat to people's 'tempers', if a topic is just going to derail into slander and fighting, then just remove the account.

Then again, I'm Horde and don't understand these Alliance problems. I'd rather the thread didn't turn into a suppressed opinion forum though.

If I wanted a forum like that...on second thought, I don't want a forum like that.

If a mod deletes this thread then it'll be a step too far and we can hereby declare the forum is China.

I see and share your concern.

Kozgugore Feraleye wrote:I'm not sure who made that post, but I think whatever mod posted that, aimed to do that with the intention of preventing the IC topics from derailing into OOC discussions. If this is the case, then I reckon there ought to be no problem with having an OOC discussion about it in the game related forums.

^ that.

Every time there is an IC thread by the Voice, it ends up either in a flamewar or/and in a rewinding discussion about who is the voice and who's "interests" it promotes and blahblah. And preventing that, in a section that is tagged "IC", is exactly the aim of my post.

The order of posts?
1. IC post by the Voice.
2. Out-of-topic response about who is the Voice (for the n-th time in similar threads)
3. Moderator post (do note: without even touching the previous post) to avoid derailing once again, and a warning that further derailing will be removed.
4. Further derailing, in direct defiance of the instruction given, including demeaning comments towards the moderator, who "dared" not attack the Voice.

Interestingly enough, I didn't see any actual thread in the Game Related section, which would be the "normal" outcome if the interest shown was benevolent. Conclusions are yours.

I stand by my decision 100%. It is not "censoring" or whatever else you wish to tag it as, but pure moderating.

PS: This is the first time I bother explaining a logic sequence. It will be the last too.

PPS: I like it how your "transfer" of the deleted post is less personal and more objective. Sadly, I haven't deleted it.

Gogol wrote:*Smokes a cigar*
((Dear moderator Nayan, isn't in fact everything on a forum- and not in game OOC? I'd agree on a letter, or even a poster like this one being IC, but the replies to it?
You now saying there cant be no more OOC replies to IC posts, because you now say so?
Can we no longer have a discusion about things? If it's racists, insulting or in some other way wrong, sure moderate it.
However here guessing who this fantastic Voice person is?

Give it a break with the hand holding.

Not an entirely different post, no. But phrased differently enough to consist a personal attack on top of ignoring the warning in the moderating post

But Nayan, it is not stated in the rules that a Mod is free to just throw in a warning and them mod happily away after that.
You cencor something based 100% on your personal, subjective oppinion and perception of things.

The rules does not state that mods can simply moderate as they please - and as such, they shouldn't do so.

Other than that, I think there are quite a few fine posts up there, and I highly encurage the mods to read this without seeing it as an assault upon their work - people appriciate what you do, but they also try to guide you towards what is best.

I'm glad Ataris seems to take in the critique and work with it.

constantly seeing people focusing ooc'ly on who is behind the Voice

It's not hard to make a thread in the Game-related area and discuss it, instead of derailing every single IC post here.

I will remove any following ooc replies revolving on that matter, consider it a warning.

I clearly state my aim, there. What I get in response "You cencor something based 100% on your personal, subjective oppinion and perception of things". That is the definition of a false accusation, along with that cocky "Give it a break with the hand holding" in regards to a user I don't even know who it is, tbh. If anything, the one accused here should not be me.

Other than that, it certainly isn't the first time certain people seem to think they can ignore moderation according to their interests. Do you deny that?

Do tell, why would it be hard to make a thread in the General forums, discussing "who the Voice is", if it's such a community concern, instead of constantly derailing those threads? In that thread, you speak of "the frustration of people towards the lies spread". It's called "propaganda". People cheer on it, when it's written by someone they know, in realm forums. Ask Antistia (who is doing a fantastic job with it too, may I add). They are both twisting truths to "promote" ICly their interests. The difference is that the person behind user1, user2, etc. knows who the person behind the propaganda is (Antistia). And here they don't. And that itches them. Which does not belong in the IC area, as it never failed to lead to flamewars. Scroll down and read other threads, to see. And, speaking of frustration, did it occur to you that person might also be frustrated in putting down effort to write that IC propaganda and constantly seeing his/her threads derailed by ooc gossip and flamewars?

I hadent saved my post,I figured the *smoking a cigar* would have been IC enough to get scramed in there, but apperntly it was deemed as not IC(who is the judge of that anyway?), and got deleted, re-wrote it by memory. Why it might not be word-by-word.
Personal attack? In that thread I was discussing(at least trying to), directly with you.
In this one I wanted to get a discussions going about moderators.

You dont have to make this personal.

Give it a break with the hand holding.

You outright accuse me personally of doing something I am not. That's no "discussion"

No, that is a feeling I'v had that maney of the moderators of this forum been "doing" for some time now, thus aimed at all the moderators. You as well.

Put some valid things in here now, please.
What I reckon will happen is that the Moderators should sit down and lay out some rules they can moderate after. That would at least been adviced to do.

Thus in the future avoiding things like this.

All this bashing around is giving me itch in places where I don´t want it. So let´s follow Mr. Communist´s advice and let´s keep the OOC and the IC apart. Else I´ll have to start being mean to people.





And you don´t want that.

Gogol wrote:What I reckon will happen is that the Moderators should sit down and lay out some rules they can moderate after. That would at least been adviced to do.

This is being worked on as we speak. I have simply yet to finish it all and post it for discussion with the Moderators.

Or don't give mod rights to power addicted people who get a kick out of it,

just an idea.

Nayan wrote:
I clearly state my aim, there. What I get in response "You cencor something based 100% on your personal, subjective oppinion and perception of things". That is the definition of a false accusation,

If you really wanna pull rethoric ... on me, I'll spell it out as clearly as I can:

Not in accordance with the RULES

No offense intented towards Nayan, nor any other mod or admin of these boards. My point remains the same, work in accordance with the rules, not anything else (which is, from my perspective, a subjective assessment, I appologize if that might not be the case).

Arador wrote:All this bashing around is giving me itch in places where I don´t want it. So let´s follow Mr. Communist´s advice and let´s keep the OOC and the IC apart. Else I´ll have to start being mean to people.





And you don´t want that.

Wait wait wait.

You called Nayan a communist!

Relithien wrote:Or don't give mod rights to power addicted people who get a kick out of it,

just an idea.

I like the way you think.

Here, hold this:

You all suck. Everybody wins. Or loses, depends on your POV.

Talking about POV... Nah, that shit is NSFW.

Hurray for posting alts.

What happend to "Register in your characters name" jazz? Fuck that, we got posting alts.

We are now on the same level as the official blizzard forums, fantastic.

Isn't this one of those times where, just like a monarchy we all have -no- say in this?

Didn't the current moderators come together to start the forum? Technically making it theres? And we are 'guests' here? I'm not defending all the unjust viva la revoltuion post deletion but we are making these threads as if we are going to -elect- moderators.

I'm as much of a guest here as you all are. I just do the dishes as well.

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:Isn't this one of those times where, just like a monarchy we all have -no- say in this?

Didn't the current moderators come together to start the forum? Technically making it theres? And we are 'guests' here? I'm not defending all the unjust viva la revoltuion post deletion but we are making these threads as if we are going to -elect- moderators.

I don't think that's the point. The point is more that this is a channel for all users' opinions as well as information and if infromation is censored or altered too much it becomes irrelevant, since it ceases to be a channel for information and instead one of the moderators' opinions.

I'm not saying that's the case here and I want everyone to keep in mind we're all human. I do see some users' concern in this case.

In this case I don't see how Nayan did anything drastically wrong. He did post a warning, though maybe deleting it might've been a bit harsh. I still don't see any great injustice done in this particular case.

Everyone makes mistakes. We don't all agree 100% with each other, we do have differing opinions.

Which is why it'd be GREAT if we could set up a specific ruleset sometime in the future.

Wubeh wrote:Hurray for posting alts.

What happend to "Register in your characters name" jazz? Fuck that, we got posting alts.

We are now on the same level as the official blizzard forums, fantastic.

My greatest beef at the moment, the fact that people are once again hiding behind posting alts.

Problem is not that I dislike the Voice, I quite like the concept, but I hate the precedent it sets, the moderators are now obliged to allow anyone with much the same reason as the Voice to create an alt. It's a minor trickle at first, a little bit of water comes through but in the end this allows for the floodgates to be opened and for it all to go wrong.
I cannot see why someone would have to hide behind a posting alt either, what's the point? You're not going to flame people as your other account will be punished as well (I sure as hell hope so) and for those saying "It's IC!" Well; "There is no need to create an extra account with a different name to fulfill this, simply sign off the poster or whatever with an IC nickname instead of your character's real name, after all, it's all IC is it not?"