Re: Warlords of Draenor - General Discussion

by **erwtenpeller** Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:12 am

What a cop-out. Diminishes the idea of combo points.

Soon every class will have three stances and a bonus resource bar.
Booo!

by **Krogon Devilstep** Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:44 am

And just when i thought my day could not get any better...

-Rogue: Ambush no longer requires the Rogue to be behind the target.
-Rogue (Subtlety): Backstab can now be used on either side of the target, in addition to behind the target.

by **siegmund** Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:48 am

Note that Paladins and, monks and all them guys had their stuff made after rogue CPs stuff anyway.

And you can't backstab from the front still, question is how much is front? I think "behind" right now is 180 degrees, how much are sides?

by **Krogon Devilstep** Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:12 pm

siegmund wrote:Note that Paladins and, monks and all them guys had their stuff made after rogue CPs stuff anyway.

And you can't backstab from the front still, question is how much is front? I think "behind" right now is 180 degrees, how much are sides?

I think its split into conal quadrants, so if directly left is 270 degrees, front is 000 degrees, right is 090 degrees and rear 180...

then anything between 315 degree's and 045 degree's is the front, and anything else is backstab territory, at a guess.

by **siegmund** Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:30 pm

So in short if they say stack in front of the boss, you're screwed.

by **Muzjhath** Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:11 pm

Sanara wrote:
siegmund wrote:Also this I bet is gonna make all the rogues swoon

"Oh, hah, that's a big oversight, my bad. Yes, Combo Points are 'on the Rogue' now. Could revert based on feedback, but trying."

While that's certainly convenient, it does kinda defeat the point of being Combo points, since that implies you're carefully strategizing your attacks to set up for a finishing blow rather than amassing a temporary power boost ala Holy Power.

It's the difference between Batman, taking down his opponents with skill and careful planning, and the Hulk, building up his strength until he's strong enough to smack things in the face until they stop fighting back.

It only bothers me on a stylistic level though, it'll probably work better in practice than the current model, though it doesn't help the feeling of homogenization and simplification that always crops up when Blizz shows off the changes in a new expac.

The problem with it was that with how it was Rogues were useless at taking care of adds in a fight. Since if they used any abilities they would end up losing CPs screwing them over in a lot of PvE engagements (not to talk about wpvp at times).

You can also look at it that the rogue preforms a combo of attacks among a bunch of enemies, not one enemy.
Punch one, backwards elbow on another, foot to the groin third, finnish off with headbutt of first.

by **Rargnasha** Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:36 pm

Sounds more like a monk than a rogue to me.

by **erwtenpeller** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:07 pm

Yeah. A rogue is supposed to be about focus fire. Sneak up, plan your attack, strike to great effect, disappear to strike another day.

by **Muzjhath** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:07 pm

Stab one in the throat, backslash another on the fly, throw blinding powder in the eyes of a third then jam your dagger in his gut.

Better?

by **erwtenpeller** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:08 pm

Rargnasha wrote:Sounds more like a monk than a rogue to me.

Weeell... Not really, in Nuz' post. I just like character designs with a strong focus. I think that changing the way combo points work diminishes some of that focus, makes the class less unique.

But I feel that way about a lot of classes. I think Paladin would have worked better with a Full Healing / Tanking / Team Support setup. I didn't think they needed DPS.

by **Muzjhath** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:21 pm

Speak for yourself.
I want Shockadin back!

Personally I think combopoints work on the rogue since then they work out a combo on their own. Not on someone else.
The combo they do is independent on the target but is on their own movement.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:32 pm

As a chap who mains as a rogue, I very much welcome the change to combo points...

...However, I totally get what erwt means, but...

I personally think of that in terms of energy spent though. Your using what effort/energy you have to effectively build a combination of attacks, ending in a brutal finisher before scurrying away.

by **Izzifix** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:01 pm

I assume this applies to cat druid as well?

Would be lovely if any of those positioning things for ambushes or backstab applied to shred too. Using shred is a bitch if I recall correctly.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt. Not saying it shouldn't, though.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:05 pm

Dwyburn wrote:I assume this applies to cat druid as well?

Would be lovely if any of those positioning things for ambushes or backstab applied to shred too. Using shred is a bitch if I recall correctly.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt. Not saying it shouldn't, though.

"Druid: Shred no longer requires the Druid to be behind the target."

Ask and yee shall receive.

by **erwtenpeller** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:12 pm

I think Sanara explained it better then I did.

by **Izzifix** Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:28 pm

Krogon Devilstep wrote:
Dwyburn wrote:I assume this applies to cat druid as well?

Would be lovely if any of those positioning things for ambushes or backstab applied to shred too. Using shred is a bitch if I recall correctly.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt. Not saying it shouldn't, though.

"Druid: Shred no longer requires the Druid to be behind the target."

Ask and yee shall receive.

That is all I ever wanted. Shame I left my druid behind when I couldn't pull off anything resembling decent dps on the Murozond encounter.

by **siegmund** Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:19 pm

Think if it will be for rogues it will be for the animalz too.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt.

Rogues are right now more support if anything, think not the only one.

Lots of stuff writes about rogues but they do not play like it writes on the blizzard page. The only stealth you do is when you got your vanish up, let's not count 30 second dots and all the rest.

Also what does it help batman if he can jump here and there if the hulk can jump just even more about even though he's heavier! And he can "Stun" you just as much if he wants to.

It feels rewarding yes when you kill someone off after "planing" and stuff but when the other guy does the same with a facesmack on the keyboard it makes you think.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:27 pm

siegmund wrote:Think if it will be for rogues it will be for the animalz too.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt.

Rogues are right now more support if anything, think not the only one.

Lots of stuff writes about rogues but they do not play like it writes on the blizzard page. The only stealth you do is when you got your vanish up, let's not count 30 second dots and all the rest.

Also what does it help batman if he can jump here and there if the hulk can jump just even more about even though he's heavier! And he can "Stun" you just as much if he wants to.

It feels rewarding yes when you kill someone off after "planing" and stuff but when the other guy does the same with a facesmack on the keyboard it makes you think.

and cry o_o,

by **Lexgrad** Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:46 pm

Krogon Devilstep wrote:
siegmund wrote:Think if it will be for rogues it will be for the animalz too.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt.

Rogues are right now more support if anything, think not the only one.

Lots of stuff writes about rogues but they do not play like it writes on the blizzard page. The only stealth you do is when you got your vanish up, let's not count 30 second dots and all the rest.

Also what does it help batman if he can jump here and there if the hulk can jump just even more about even though he's heavier! And he can "Stun" you just as much if he wants to.

It feels rewarding yes when you kill someone off after "planing" and stuff but when the other guy does the same with a facesmack on the keyboard it makes you think.

and cry o_o,

Batman does some grim dark posturing.... Hulk pops swifty and rofls him in seconds.

by **Ixirar** Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:19 pm

siegmund wrote:Think if it will be for rogues it will be for the animalz too.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt.

Rogues are right now more support if anything, think not the only one.

Lots of stuff writes about rogues but they do not play like it writes on the blizzard page. The only stealth you do is when you got your vanish up, let's not count 30 second dots and all the rest.

Also what does it help batman if he can jump here and there if the hulk can jump just even more about even though he's heavier! And he can "Stun" you just as much if he wants to.

It feels rewarding yes when you kill someone off after "planing" and stuff but when the other guy does the same with a facesmack on the keyboard it makes you think.

I think I found out why you're doing bad as a rogue.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:54 pm

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:
siegmund wrote:Think if it will be for rogues it will be for the animalz too.

And wow doesn't really have the role "Support" erwt.

Rogues are right now more support if anything, think not the only one.

Lots of stuff writes about rogues but they do not play like it writes on the blizzard page. The only stealth you do is when you got your vanish up, let's not count 30 second dots and all the rest.

Also what does it help batman if he can jump here and there if the hulk can jump just even more about even though he's heavier! And he can "Stun" you just as much if he wants to.

It feels rewarding yes when you kill someone off after "planing" and stuff but when the other guy does the same with a facesmack on the keyboard it makes you think.

I think I found out why you're doing bad as a rogue.

Stealth is, and always has been a rogues most powerful tool.

by **siegmund** Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:59 pm

No worries i do use normal restealths when i can, but i'm afaid of stealth, the memories of elfs snogging pandas haunts me. It's just horrific!

by **Ixirar** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:48 pm

Well, at least you managed to pass off that snog as "Explicit oral sex ERP" when you went and told my guild master about it.

But I see your point. Kissing is just too gross to risk. What if the people kissing don't realise they're being spied on, they might even kiss WHILE YOU'RE WATCHING. So gross.

But eh, I guess it's nice that that one kiss my elf shared with a panda like 2 months ago has entertained you for all that time. Some people simply don't have better things to do, huh?

by **erwtenpeller** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:56 pm

Guys. Not the right place to be having this battle of snarks.

by **siegmund** Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:09 am

In other news, lots of datamining going on. Still alpha in the end though, what are you guys hoping might still change or yet to be seen?

Saw some new glyphs in the works on MMO champion and of course the alpha loading screen.

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