Redecorating the Abbey

*Just before five in the morning last night. Anyone with an immensely keen eye may have seen a pitch black gryphon with three passengers fly over the Anethionean abbey.

This promptly changed to two passengers as a body was dropped from the gryphon and skewered on the sharp spire atop the abbey.

With an even keener eye, two men in pitch black robes could have been seen riding the gryphon.

The body is a charred husk and completely unrecognisable, donned in dark looking cultist robes.*

(( Rolled for corpse landing on the spire. 98! ))

Azarion wrote:*Just before five in the morning last night. Anyone with an immensely keen eye may have seen a pitch black gryphon with three passengers fly over the Anethionean abbey.

This promptly changed to two passengers as a body was dropped from the gryphon and skewered on the sharp spire atop the abbey.

With an even keener eye, two men in pitch black robes could have been seen riding the gryphon.

The body is a charred husk and completely unrecognisable, donned in dark looking cultist robes.*

(( Rolled for corpse landing on the spire. 98! ))

(( Found this lovely little article:

While most healthy horses can easily carry a rider and saddle, they do have their limits. Now researchers have identified a threshold for when a rider is too heavy for a horse to comfortably carry.

The scientists base their findings on detailed measurements taken of eight horses that were ridden while packing anywhere from 15 to 30% of their body weight. The horses ranged in size from 400 to 625 kilograms (885 to 1375 pounds).

When carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight, the horses showed relatively little indication of stress. It's when they were packing weights of 25% that physical signs changed markedly, and these became accentuated under 30% loads.

The horses had noticeably faster breathing and higher heart rates when carrying tack and rider amounting to 25% or more of their body weight. A day after trotting and cantering with the heftier weights, the horses' muscles showed substantially greater soreness and tightness. Those horses that were least sore from the exercise had wider loins, the part of a horse's back located between their last rib and croup.

Based on these results, the study's authors recommend that horses not be loaded with greater than 20% of their body weight. A 545-kilogram (1200 pound) horse, then would be best off carrying no more than 109 kg (240 lbs) of tack and rider.

Now consider...a gryphon, as seen by game mechanics, is approximately the size of a horse, maybe a little bit bigger. One would think that a gryphon's wing and back muscles would need to be very well developed in order to be able to carry one rider. Although the article I included mentions horses, these are earth-bound animals that don't have to fight gravity to get off the ground, like gryphons do.

So really, one must ask themselves, "Could a gryphon -really- be able to carry three people and still be able to fly?"

In addition, Stormwind is a guarded city. The city guard consistently has patrols because, after all, there are hostile forces that could show up from anywhere AND there are gryphon riders patrolling over the city itself (because an attack from above is very likely--just look at Theramore! One would think the King wouldn't put it past the Horde to maybe consider sending a mega bomb to Stormwind either). So a black gryphon spotted with THREE riders would be cause for suspicion...and then the gryphon returns with two riders and suddenly the Abbey sends word that someone fell from the sky and was impaled on their spire and it turns out being a blackened corpse!! And gryphons aren't just kept in people's backyards, are they? Where are gryphons kept and fed and made to be happy? And if it left from within the city, I'm sure a guard would see a gryphon and go, "Wait a minute...that's not one of OUR gryphons...looks like it came from over there!"

Dunno who came up with this plan, but there's holes all over it. ))

((A gryphon can carry a great deal, particularly if said gryphon has been chosen specifically for large races wearing plate armor. Add to that a nifty bit of magic on both riders in the form of levitation and you have yourself a deal.

Gryphons are strong enough to launch themselves vertically. In addition, said riders were happily not stupid enough to fly through or near any gryphon patrols... in fact, the gryphon came from the direction of Stormwind, but nothing was said about coming from the city itself.))

(( It was specifically emoted casting weak forms of levitation on the riders to make them lighter. They were donned in pitch black garments as well as the gryphon given an illusion to appear pitch black. If any patrols would have somehow seen them, they would have been completely camouflaged against the night sky after gaining some height. ))

Farelin/Dijie wrote:

Azarion wrote:*Just before five in the morning last night. Anyone with an immensely keen eye may have seen a pitch black gryphon with three passengers fly over the Anethionean abbey.

This promptly changed to two passengers as a body was dropped from the gryphon and skewered on the sharp spire atop the abbey.

With an even keener eye, two men in pitch black robes could have been seen riding the gryphon.

The body is a charred husk and completely unrecognisable, donned in dark looking cultist robes.*

(( Rolled for corpse landing on the spire. 98! ))

(( Found this lovely little article:

While most healthy horses can easily carry a rider and saddle, they do have their limits. Now researchers have identified a threshold for when a rider is too heavy for a horse to comfortably carry.

The scientists base their findings on detailed measurements taken of eight horses that were ridden while packing anywhere from 15 to 30% of their body weight. The horses ranged in size from 400 to 625 kilograms (885 to 1375 pounds).

When carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight, the horses showed relatively little indication of stress. It's when they were packing weights of 25% that physical signs changed markedly, and these became accentuated under 30% loads.

The horses had noticeably faster breathing and higher heart rates when carrying tack and rider amounting to 25% or more of their body weight. A day after trotting and cantering with the heftier weights, the horses' muscles showed substantially greater soreness and tightness. Those horses that were least sore from the exercise had wider loins, the part of a horse's back located between their last rib and croup.

Based on these results, the study's authors recommend that horses not be loaded with greater than 20% of their body weight. A 545-kilogram (1200 pound) horse, then would be best off carrying no more than 109 kg (240 lbs) of tack and rider.

Now consider...a gryphon, as seen by game mechanics, is approximately the size of a horse, maybe a little bit bigger. One would think that a gryphon's wing and back muscles would need to be very well developed in order to be able to carry one rider. Although the article I included mentions horses, these are earth-bound animals that don't have to fight gravity to get off the ground, like gryphons do.

So really, one must ask themselves, "Could a gryphon -really- be able to carry three people and still be able to fly?"

In addition, Stormwind is a guarded city. The city guard consistently has patrols because, after all, there are hostile forces that could show up from anywhere AND there are gryphon riders patrolling over the city itself (because an attack from above is very likely--just look at Theramore! One would think the King wouldn't put it past the Horde to maybe consider sending a mega bomb to Stormwind either). So a black gryphon spotted with THREE riders would be cause for suspicion...and then the gryphon returns with two riders and suddenly the Abbey sends word that someone fell from the sky and was impaled on their spire and it turns out being a blackened corpse!! And gryphons aren't just kept in people's backyards, are they? Where are gryphons kept and fed and made to be happy? And if it left from within the city, I'm sure a guard would see a gryphon and go, "Wait a minute...that's not one of OUR gryphons...looks like it came from over there!"

Dunno who came up with this plan, but there's holes all over it. ))

((You know what would be lovely? Ic reactions to Ic events, not instant foot-stamping ooc and NO NO NO YOU CAN'T whilst assuming none of your concerns were taken into account. This realm needs more rp, less ooc overreactions and attempts to shut things down.))

((Besides, whenever you cannot make sense of another player's plan or actions, it's always to solve it on your side. "They must have used magic to cast an illusion making a black dragon look like a gryphon, since no gryphon can carry that many passengers! That explains why it was black -- *gasp* Deathwing's Twilight Hammer cultists! They're back! And they've got dragons!". I guarantee you it will spar you a lot of drama and give you some fun material to role-play with to boot!))

Kittrina wrote:((You know what would be lovely? Ic reactions to Ic events, not instant foot-stamping ooc and NO NO NO YOU CAN'T whilst assuming none of your concerns were taken into account. This realm needs more rp, less ooc overreactions and attempts to shut things down.))

((And then we take a look at your replies in the Goodwyn registry thread, and you seem rather hypocritical all of a sudden.))

(Doesn't matter. Keep IC matters IC; if you disagree, take it up in whispers or something. No need to make this thread into a ranting/drama fest.)

Gogol wrote:

Kittrina wrote:((You know what would be lovely? Ic reactions to Ic events, not instant foot-stamping ooc and NO NO NO YOU CAN'T whilst assuming none of your concerns were taken into account. This realm needs more rp, less ooc overreactions and attempts to shut things down.))

((And then we take a look at your replies in the Goodwyn registry thread, and you seem rather hypocritical all of a sudden.))

((Not in the least, entirely different matter; arguing over the carrying capacity of a fictional, mythological creature as opposed to raising a point that you were making a character with the same title as an established character. In that thread, I wasn't even asking you to stop or reconsider your rp; just the precise area of Elwynn you were claiming lordship of.

If that's not clear enough: the difference is; in this thread, Farelin trying to claim the rp was impossible; in the that thread, I was asking that you take existing rp community into consideration when creating a new noble. It's water under the bridge however, I got over it, apparently you didn't.

What I find frustrating is claiming something that has happened, already, never could have/should have. Retconning is rp poison ))

Madness D: /drops corpse on the pig and whistle

(( A wizard did it ))

Burke Golightly squinted as he looked at the twisted form on the bent spire. Sucking his teeth he turned to the ladder, propped in his wheelbarrow. Back to the spire. The ladder. The spire.

"Oh, fiddle sticks", he sighed wiping his nose "there aint no way I'll be reachin'"

As the crows pecked and prodded at the charred body, Burke trundled his cart off home. Maybe there was a length of the good rope in the workshop, that could do it. And why was he so hungry all of a sudden, that joint of bacon he'd seen hanging at Todrick's shop kept coming to mind.

(( Farelin, the way you have to look at it is that it is all fantasy. I've had a discussion with someone who told me you can't draw a 2hander sword from your back as it is near impossible for most humans to do. I spent the first 10 mins of our discussion trying to find practical ways of doing so... until I simply thought, why not? This isn't Earth, it looks cool and as long as it doesn't mess up role-play, there is no point trying to stop it! A gryphon in standard fantasy terms is the king of the skies and a muscular broad eagle-beast, so it is hard to say what they can and can't carry. Look at the ant, they can carry 10x their weight!))

Kittrina wrote:

Gogol wrote:

Kittrina wrote:((You know what would be lovely? Ic reactions to Ic events, not instant foot-stamping ooc and NO NO NO YOU CAN'T whilst assuming none of your concerns were taken into account. This realm needs more rp, less ooc overreactions and attempts to shut things down.))

((And then we take a look at your replies in the Goodwyn registry thread, and you seem rather hypocritical all of a sudden.))

((Not in the least, entirely different matter; arguing over the carrying capacity of a fictional, mythological creature as opposed to raising a point that you were making a character with the same title as an established character. In that thread, I wasn't even asking you to stop or reconsider your rp; just the precise area of Elwynn you were claiming lordship of.

If that's not clear enough: the difference is; in this thread, Farelin trying to claim the rp was impossible; in the that thread, I was asking that you take existing rp community into consideration when creating a new noble. It's water under the bridge however, I got over it, apparently you didn't.

What I find frustrating is claiming something that has happened, already, never could have/should have. Retconning is rp poison ))

(( I find that analyzing this set of events is part of my "immersion." People keep making claims about this and that ruining their immersion into RP. Why is it wrong to use logic and common sense in a situation to ask yourself whether or not it's possible in a RP setting?

I also never said the RP was impossible. I pointed out the lack of detail and how not-well-thought-out their plan was. I still personally think their explanations don't make sense...if they're using a levitation spell to make themselves lighter, wouldn't a strong wind blow them away? Or would it make them frantically try to cling to the gryphon as it flies, making it even -more- noticeable?

I'm more than allowed to analyze this. Do you see me going, "OMFG, this isn't possible and therefore never happened, FU!" Didn't think so. ))

(( Just deal with the frickin' charred corpse on your church. Be thankful someone is doing you the courtesy of providing you with RP, not all guilds are that lucky. ))

((As a Death Knight I was imprisoned and beaten for a similar act but Remember; for only 2 silver a month you can sponsor a Death Knight against this kind of abuse and together we can make the living impaired feel welcome.))

(( But Fare, a Gryphon in lore was able to carry a dwarf female and (your char) whilst dangling a chained Ogre over a spinning blade in Deepholm, so I'm sure they're pretty strong creatures!

Best to avoid comparing them to a horse as they're more like lion/eagles. Remember, this is a fantasy world!))

(( Perhaps it would have been more appropriate for both sides involved - notice I said both sides, not just Chapter or the Competetive Corpse Throwing on Gryphon-back society - to set up an event together for these sorts of attacks? A gryphon would be quite noisy I'd imagine, hit-and-run attacks in roleplay tend to come across as somewhat unfair given it doesn't allow for the other side to react. An event, even a small one, seems like it would of offered more of a scenario to interact with!

Has the chapter considered mounting Gnomish turrets to their bell tower by any chance, would solve a hell of a lot of problems. ))

Arenfel/Mikhael wrote:(( Perhaps it would have been more appropriate for both sides involved - notice I said both sides, not just Chapter or the Competetive Corpse Throwing on Gryphon-back society - to set up an event together for these sorts of attacks? A gryphon would be quite noisy I'd imagine, hit-and-run attacks in roleplay tend to come across as somewhat unfair given it doesn't allow for the other side to react. An event, even a small one, seems like it would of offered more of a scenario to interact with! ))

(( See, this would have been even better! It could have been planned and made to make more sense and even created a long-term plot for both guilds to enjoy! But too many guilds of late seem to think dropping corpses off without reactions being permitted is a better idea, especially since "no one would see any of it happening, hur hur hur."

When a tree falls in the forest and no one's there to hear it, etc... ))

(( Sorry. Not entirely sure what is "unfair" about doing something that I'm 99% sure wouldn't have been stoppable if was planned, either way, It was to send a message, not to harm anyone.
How is this different from the chapter laying flowers outside the pig?

And Farelin, the gryphon itself was not made lighter, merely the riders.

Edit: I won't share the IC reasoning, but this was not intended to be a long term plot.))

Azarion wrote:(( Sorry. Not entirely sure what is "unfair" about doing something that I'm 99% sure wouldn't have been stoppable if was planned, either way, It was to send a message, not to harm anyone.
How is this different from the chapter laying flowers outside the pig?

And Farelin, the gryphon itself was not made lighter, merely the riders.))

(( An abbey is likely well lit at all times, they likely spend a fortune on candles and holy fire. It might have been possible for an archer, arcanist or the like to shoot down the gryphon?

This isn't really a case of who did what first, I'm only speaking as somebody who's read the forums on this conflict between both parties. So the only opinion I can offer is one gleamed from your words, and from what I've read so far it seems to be along the lines of: "They did it first".

P.S - You should use a tape measure and record the distance of your corpse throws, and compete with the Black Hand to see who can throw them further! ))

Azarion wrote:How is this different from the chapter laying flowers outside the pig?

(( To be fair, flowers and mutilated corpses are a whole other ballgame. ))

Arenfel/Mikhael wrote:P.S - You should use a tape measure and record the distance of your corpse throws, and compete with the Black Hand to see who can throw them further! ))

Death-o-lympics?

Azarion wrote:(( Sorry. Not entirely sure what is "unfair" about doing something that I'm 99% sure wouldn't have been stoppable if was planned, either way, It was to send a message, not to harm anyone.
How is this different from the chapter laying flowers outside the pig?

And Farelin, the gryphon itself was not made lighter, merely the riders.

Edit: I won't share the IC reasoning, but this was not intended to be a long term plot.))

(( Laying out flowers won't make the guards freak out over a murder. Throwing a burned corpse at a church is kind of a big deal.

Besides, those flowers were there for IC reasons, thanks to a certain Pandaren. This, too, was totally RPed out. I wasn't in the room, mind you, but I managed to oocly hear the conversation about it.

Also, I'm fully aware the riders were made lighter, not the gryphon. o_o Lightening up a gryphon makes no sense... ))

((Just to point out:

This wasn't a planned thing ICly, hence the lack of planning OOC. Normally I'm all for preplanning everything (particularly if it's combat, but this was not). It was an odd end to a random chain of events.

Regardless, it was entirely viable. I'm really not sure what the big deal is here. Things like this happen IRL, and as for the "hur hur hur," you were informed in-game as soon as we started going about it, and told us to post it here instead...?

Also--nobody said it was Blades, Arenfel In any case we did not drop down low to the Abbey. We dropped it from a bit of height and rolled for impalement to be fair. 98 ;D ))

(( I did whisper Farelin as it happened so if there were any OOC problems or uncomfortableness, she could have told me at the time and we'd have definitely stopped untill we could set up a "fair" scenario. ))