Villains and Cultists.

You are in no way adressing the points I was raising. I said there isn't a big evil guild because the server has been dwindling and as it is we don't have the playerbase to support one. I didn't say that the big evil guild was BETTER than your scattered renegade evil guys all doing their seperate things, and I didn't say that the absence of a big evil guild was something that made the server worse than it was back when we had those.

I raised the points I did because people feel that there is an unfilled hole so to say, that was left after the Dark Sphere and Hand of Nightmare disbanded. Back then, we had the Dark Sphere as a lawfully evil organisation, the Hand of Nightmare as the Chaotic Evil faction waging war on TDS, and Sophyra's cult society as the sort of neutral evil "We're doing our seperate things but we're still a community" thing. Back then, the evil guys had an obvious and prominent face on the server, which is something they don't have now. Atm, if you take a quick scan of the face of the server, you'll see the DOL, the Chapter, the Regiment, and a couple of scattered villains.

Wether this is good or bad is not something I'm passing judgement on so please stop adressing me as if I'm calling the current thing shit and the nostalgia age to be the best thing ever. The points I'm raising are not to determine wether it's good or bad. I'm trying to explain why it's happening at all.

Considering that is the matter at hand "the old days were better!", it looked like you were a supporter for the hipster argument, hence why I was arguing back with you. Raelan's original point was to say how the RP has worsened because of the lack of villains. You said yourself "there are no villains around because there is no guild." I'm pointing out that there are. You disagreed. Why wouldn't I reply to that?

As a leader of the most recent Cult group, < Veil of Shadows >, or as Vaell described us: "a cultist guild in hiding after a lot of engaging rp (of which every role-player involved has been a different and exciting character)" i think i'll have to say a few words...

There are bad guys out there. There is now, there will always be. I did not RP during the golden age of Cultism where you could find...lets say... 20x People in same spot plotting. However, i still managed to find a good amount of people to the Veil. We just had to go into hiding after a betrayal got all the good guys on our tracks, killing a few in the process.

The Veil though is in slumber at the moment. Simply because i lack what a guild would need from a leader: Time.

If i had that one thing, Time, i bet that i would be able to rise the Veil to such heights that it would take its name among the now Legends of Defias Brotherhood. I am still plotting, doing minor preparations to rise again and create large amounts of great Roleplaying. Only time will show if i have the Time to do anything large again.

A Guild -unites- the bad guys to a Threat. It is not required for having those bad guys out there, but it surely promotes it.

My point was "The villains are hard to find because there isn't a well-defined villain guild/community, which is a result of the dwindling playerbase that as of lately does not seem to be big enough to sustain a such organisation."

A note on the old days vs. right now thing though, yes, admittedly I do think the old days were better. But hey, who the fuck can blame me? I made a lot of friends in mid-to-late TBC up till early wrath (I quit around the time TOC was released because of me attending a boarding school, which meant I wasn't home enough for my subscription to make sense), and those people still make up the majority of my friendslist. Guess what, 90% of my friendlist hasn't logged on since fall 2009. What does this mean for me? Well, when I log onto the chars I still have on Defias Brotherhood, I rarely if ever get a "friend has come online" notification in my chatlog, because they've moved on from this game much faster than I have.

Let's flash back to summer 2009. I was in Quin's guild Seraphim, raiding 25man Ulduar and generally enjoying the way that guild worked as well as how we were currently progressing through what I think was the single best raid dungeon ever put into this game. This meant I had something to do progression-wise for my character, there was a point to logging in every evening. Even if I didn't have a guild raid, I was trying to break 2.2k rating with my arena team, and I was also doing 10man runs with Darothar's Scarlet Crusade guild which were absolutely hilarious because of the athmosphere on skype during those runs. As for RP, at the time I was one of the active participants of Sophyra's underground cultist community and posed as the tavern manager of the Slaughtered Lamb, which meant that even if there wasn't an RP event or any scheduled stuff going on in the basement, I could always go and tend to the guests/entertain the angry Shields who were always knocking on the tavern door with a new search warrant or accusations of cultism and what have you.

Basically, back then, no matter what time I logged on, I always had the incentive to do either raiding, RP or arena (which were all things I enjoyed to a great extent at the time), and I was always guaranteed that atleast 2 of the 3 were possible because there were people online to make it happen! Honestly, who can blame me for looking back at that time and thinking "This was it. This was the best time I've had in WoW."

I am not saying that the server was better back then, or that you guys made it worse when you took over the empty room that happened when people started quitting. I'm saying personally I had more fun then than I do now, because after coming back when my boarding school stay was over I ended up feeling like the community had sort of moved ahead and I was sort of at a loss trying to find a place for Kavalis to stay, because at the time, I remember looking around for a good while trying to find a new evil community so I could get him active again and I was unable to find any. (this was sometime early Cata before I quit again, so pre-summer 2011)

So guys, for every time you go "Fuck you you golden-age hipster boy" in defense of the way things are now, try to understand you're doing the exact same thing as us. When Raenmar said "Fuck now, I want back then back" and you guys told him "But it's good now, you're just being hipster for missing the old days", you were effectively telling him that the times he had fun where he truly enjoyed WoW were not something he was allowed to voice appreciation of.

And to be honest, even if it hasn't gotten outright worse, it still hasn't improved since then.

I am going to say something to this.. I have been here since vanilla.. I have been one of those evil people, also one of those good people. When you return to the server, then yes some will have left..

When people tell me how all their friends are leaving.. My initial thought is.. Then... Go find some new ones? Because..

If you dont create rp you wont find rp.

If I log my warlock.. ((And I did for the first time two years ago..)) I returned after 10 months of absence. Sure there was some people left on my friendslist.. But thats beyond the point. I did not know a single evil rper at that moment.. So what did I do?

I began rping evil, bad, subtle actions towards people and voila...
Suddenly there was more of them. Heck one night in Darkshire I even had to chase someone of for trying to mindfuck what I considered -my victims- ;P As I got there first... And was way into it already I did not chase him off per say though, as he did stick around but when two locks tries to fuck the same char over... It gets a little much

Soo.. To the above post..

If you dont find RP make RP.

Sure I miss the sphere, I miss the hand.. I miss a lot of guilds to be fair..But what I miss the most???

Simple..

Random stranger, good rp'er with insane ways of abducting me out of the city (( do mind I can count on one hand the times I have been abducted the past 7 years.)). For that is by far more exciting..

Same as if I walk around on one of my baddies and suddenly notice there is Chapterian stalking me I am more inclined to turn around and say hi in a whisper, then to run off:P For I do know them to well..

Still I get the guild idea.. Seeing a sphere walking behind you in the past meant you were either very very randomly walking the same way or you would likely be in deep shit soon...

Even better when you didnt see them coming at all..

Still the Rule 1 of RP stands.
RP will not fall into your lap. People will have real lives. Hence.. You can not count on a friendlist for rp. And no you dont directly say you do but I will still repeat myself. When in lack of it, make it!!!

There is nothing more sucky than people that just idly stands around waiting for rp to happen. Make rp and you will have a friendlist so full you end up needing all of them on real id, and still you wont have room for them all..

My five copper.

Do note that I'm not whining or ranting about how I miss the old days. I'm giving a clarification on -why- I miss them, and presumably why the others miss them too. Because untill now, it seems like everytime somebody utters the words "Good old days", they're instantly met with a lot of hostility on account of being "Fucking hipster bellends", which I think it a narrowminded point of view. People should be free to be open about how they miss their prime-times without people instantly branding them as pessimists for it.

I've always been an advocator of "bringing the RP to myself" and I always will be, having been raised with the mindset that I've got to work to get what I really want. And yes, I still think this server is a good one, even if I have what feels like a million friends who I cherished playing with, friends who do not log in anymore and haven't done so for an eternity. I have no hesitation creating my own RP if I log in and feel like I want to RP, but the point stands: I had more fun back then, because back then I had a lot of friends in the game and a lot of stuff to do in the game. Yes I can make new friends, but building friendships is both hard work and very time consuming, time that I don't have anymore. I still enjoy playing the game, don't mistake me, but when my friend circle in WoW started dwindling, it happened at the same time as I moved in on my boarding school 3 years ago. My roomie from that school still stands today as my very closest friend. When I returned to wow, I was in high school, and was building my friend circle there (my boarding school friend circle now scattered all across Denmark, making it hard to see them all regularly, especially when I don't have money for the trips), which leaves me very limited in terms of upportunity to rebuild my circle.

Now, again, I need to stress this. I'm not whining about how back then was better or how I'm simply incapable of moving on from the "good old days". I am simply elaborating that even though "I like it now" is a valid opinion, so is "I liked it back then" and if people could learn that it's a matter of harmless opinion that in no way diminishes the quality of your game in any way, we'd be able to have this discussion in a much more constructive way.

Funny how the topic of this thread seems to have changed like the server. Aherm.

What topic? I hit my nose in a wall of text.

This, for the sake of truth. Because anyone saying those things in the quotation marks below deserve nothing less than a chuckle.

So guys, for every time you go "Fuck you you golden-age hipster boy" in defense of the way things are now, try to understand you're doing the exact same thing as us. When Raenmar said "Fuck now, I want back then back" and you guys told him "But it's good now, you're just being hipster for missing the old days", you were effectively telling him that the times he had fun where he truly enjoyed WoW were not something he was allowed to voice appreciation of.

And fixing this, since I love watching the reactions of those who try to claim its better now than before, most of them are really cute.

And to be honest, it's worse, it hasn't improved since then.

Any chance this topic could be cleaned up a bit, get it back on the topic it was supossed to be. Offering contact to the villains that is out there -now.

Maybe split the discussion to another post?

Never. Let me derail shit in peace.

Geldar and Raelan are still always the biggest villains of all history.

At the end of the day, if anyone is struggling to get role-play with villains and have interesting and in depth plots going, then you're a lazy RPer.

And don't even let me get started on Geldar! Coming on once a week for the council and judging if things are worse or better?

As I've said from the beginning, it doesn't matter the period of time, Role-play is what you make of it. You can create an extremely engaging and masterful plot with five people just as you can with five hundred. Times only get worse if people are stuck relying on others for their role-play.

Inactive semi decent rpers claiming there havent been decent baddy characters in the last 4 years "THE BLACK KEYS SUCK WE MISS THE ROLLING STONES "

it seems like everytime somebody utters the words "Good old days", they're instantly met with a lot of hostility on account of being "Fucking hipster bellends"

Because you are hipster bellends that have nothing to contribute other then repeating yourself with the boohoo the server sux

imo you either contribute or shut the fuck up and stop demotivating others

ps. if anyone is ever in need of henchmen (preferably the non cultist type, I'm not too good at those) just give us a holla!

I do really like role-playing though.

erwtenpeller wrote:I do really like role-playing though.

You like trying to be funny while getting your post count up. L2BURBR0THER

It's more about illustrating the futility of the whole discussion. There are no winners, because everyone is right.

Just log your character and go have some fun, I say.

As Quin so elegantly put it, that is the trouble with "the golden age" mind set. It is fine if one thing was better than another, lets make it that good or even better now! But no, "Vanilla is a golden age that will never be passed, dont bother" is the vibe that we get all the time and it is disheartening.

If there is an easy way to make things better that Vanilla players know please share it otherwise, we are all the same so lets contribute together and make things better.

It feels like the only times people read what I'm actually saying is when I'm trolling...

I've no issues with people that say "Things were better in Vanilla -for me-" etc. The only reason I don't spend all my time talking about the younger years of the server is because there is no way for me to actively turn that into a way to contribute to the community as it is now.

It's not that the server is bad now, I think, for a lot of people it's the people they miss, rather than what was going on. Sure, things like TDS etc were brilliant but do you know how often they were fucking annoying pains in the ass? Lots.

People that have been around since Vanilla will often do what those on the Blizz forums do when they start spouting off about wanting Vanilla servers. It's all about nostalgia, and I think for the most part, that nostalgia turns into somehow thinking everything was amazing back then. When frankly, a lot of it was the opposite.

The community on defias has -always- been changing. Back when I first joined the Stormwind Rangers, there was at least two or three people joining every single day. The community was growing, plots were changing, guilds were sprouting up etc. Of course this still happens now, but not exactly to the scale of a -new- server, obviously.

What I'm trying to say is that people shouldn't be so quick to knock the people that say they miss those days. You should, however, stick up for the community as it is now, because it's wrong for people to just throw that personal opinion on a server they're supposed to be part of. Doesn't matter if you've been here for years or a day.

Sure, I miss the RP from Vanilla and TBC. But it was because of the people, not because it was directly better. And, as Vaell pointed out, perhaps I wouldn't feel that way if I made more effort to connect with people from the current community.

As a closing statement - Some of the people I adore the most on this server, I met in very late TBC/Early wrath. It's just about making an effort to connect when you feel everyone you used to RP with are vanishing.

TL;DR,

I miss things about the community in earlier years of the server, but that is directly relative to me and the people I RP'd with. I miss the -people- and it bugs the crap out of me when people just say the RP was flat out better. There were so many examples of terrible RP back then.

Ledgic Caan wrote:It's not that the server is bad now, I think, for a lot of people it's the people they miss, rather than what was going on. Sure, things like TDS etc were brilliant but do you know how often they were fucking annoying pains in the ass? Lots.

What I'm trying to say is that people shouldn't be so quick to knock the people that say they miss those days. You should, however, stick up for the community as it is now, because it's wrong for people to just throw that personal opinion on a server they're supposed to be part of. Doesn't matter if you've been here for years or a day.

Sure, I miss the RP from Vanilla and TBC. But it was because of the people, not because it was directly better. And, as Vaell pointed out, perhaps I wouldn't feel that way if I made more effort to connect with people from the current community.

Those 3 paragraphs were my entire point the whole time through.

And before anybody calls me a hypocrite, no I wasn't calling the server bad, shut up.

There is however a -clear- decline of RPers going on since start of Cata. And quite a few of them, if not for the lack of proper RP wouldn't have quit.

And don't even try to deny that.

No, there is no denying the decline of RPers, but Raelan, you argued that the server was better and you won't find any good Villain rpers. That is what spawned this debate.

I'm just trying to keep this discussion going.