Re: The "other game thread"

[Nayan]

That's a very interesting development, Lins ^^ I see England and France still have sex, as usual. And Castille totally took over Portugal? xD My game's the opposite, there.

Spoiler:

[Lini]

That's a very interesting development, Lins ^^ I see England and France still have sex, as usual. And Castille totally took over Portugal? xD My game's the opposite, there.

Spoiler:

How can you live with infamy that high? Unless, of course, you're already strong enough to disregard what other kingdoms think about you.

As for my game, France and the Brits are still having some fun every now and then. Although France is getting dangerously blobby thanks to the numerous colonies and whathave it has acquired. Luckily they're in rather good terms with me thanks to us both being Protestant. Then again, almost all of Europe is Protestant all the way to the Urals with the exception of the German minors and the Italian kingdoms. Dark blue is the colour of choice for the religion screen and I can proudly say it's mostly thanks to my rather aggressive forced conversion of neighbouring kingdoms (I got very tired of being constantly excommunicated by the Pope while I was still Catholic.)

Also, observe the glory that is my old In Nomine game as France quite some time ago. The year is 1616 but I played roughly to the end of the 18th century before I got bored.

Spoiler:

I think this was the turning point where I decided to ignore my infamy score and just keep conquering more and more. Despite being constantly at war with half the world and being swamped by tens of thousands of rebels every month by the time I got bored (mostly because the game got so slow) I had conquered Europe all the way to Constantinople, almost all of Americas, China, most of India, south-east Asia, most of Oceania, etc. I probably would've been able to conquer every province in the world before the game was over.

[Nayan]

How can you live with infamy that high? Unless, of course, you're already strong enough to disregard what other kingdoms think about you.

Spot on Plus, it's not the usual levels. The screenshot is right after a war with Austria/Castille where I basically castrated Austria's dangerous expansions and.. well.. splattered Castille a bit more.

The next war saw France/Castille losing, with France having to... release 5 provinces in its midst to form Guyenne (who immediately got excommunicated, but curiously not a single soul has dared declare war at it... I wonder why... Surely it can't be because I'm allied with it and guarantee it, can it? Nawww. xD). And Castille having to cede all its sea access plus Madrid. Which, combined, brought me back to the infamy you see on the screenshot, again, but worth it, tbh ^^

Majority of nations "trust me implicitly" (not sure how the ranking goes about trust, so) and most of my expansions have been in colonising and tribal conquest (where I'd conveniently keep any gold/slaves/ivory and vassalize the rest of the countries). Oh and, still allied with England (plus 15-16 vassals/PU's). No naval force can compete that.

Btw, when you integrate a PU, do you also get its armies/navy, or is it the same as annexing where they are lost? Haven't integrated any so far and currently have two, one with Siena and one with Crete. Looking into integrating Siena at least, to hold some ground in Italy, because Bohemia starts to act like Austria mkII already (those pesky HRE's, tsk ^^) and holds a lot of Lombardian territory.

[Nithel]

Alternative history stuff really make me very angry. I just go fucking mental. "That's bullshit, that never happened!"

[Halya]

Alternative history stuff really make me very angry. I just go fucking mental. "That's bullshit, that never happened!"

You must have a horrible time watching any film not set in the future then.

[Nithel]

I don't mind fiction in it's entirety. I'm not shouting at my telly every time there's a story being told. I religiously watch True Blood.

Fiction doesn't piss me off, it's historical changes that do. It's just the historical 'what if' Germany won the World War, 'what if' Netherlands and Belgium stayed one that drives me apeshit. But an unlikely story about a cafe in France where Germans pass by ( Allo Allo) doesn't really get me twisted.

[Geneviève]

Ah..O play that game (hypothesising alternative history) all the time.Usually on a more focused scale. Such as, how would Russia have faired had the Allies lost the Battle of Britain annd the Luftwaffe was still the dominant air power. Or, could the Allies have soldiered on had Russia capitulated. Usually the consensus to those two questions is, 'They'd have been fucked.'

[Amaryl]

Ah..O play that game (hypothesising alternative history) all the time.Usually on a more focused scale. Such as, how would Russia have faired had the Allies lost the Battle of Britain annd the Luftwaffe was still the dominant air power. Or, could the Allies have soldiered on had Russia capitulated. Usually the consensus to those two questions is, 'They'd have been fucked.'

and even that scale is ridiculously stupid. since neither of the scenario's you have described can give a definitive answer of what ifs. and fyi: how would WW2 have ended by the change of a battle that happened in 1942? that's a focussed scale?

that's like asking the question: could napoleon have won the war against the seventh coalition, if he won at waterloo? or heck even could napoleon have won waterloo if grouchy had successfully chased Blucher away from waterloo.. even that question while very focussed is too ridiculous to answer with alternative history.

[Geneviève]

Hypothesising combat estimates and extrapolating future possibilities is one of the primary functions of an Officer. If you can't see the value in developing that sort of skill...I don't know what to say.

[Amaryl]

I see the value in extrapolating future possibilities,

I don't see the value in creating ridiculous circumstances into which the Third reich could have possibly won. since well, it couldn't have ever, which is to say due to production capacity and economic strength. ( hail mary not withstanding)

likewise, the south would never had been able to win from the union due to man power, weapon, production capability advancement, a far far superior fleet and the ability to make more ships, etc, etc,etc (hail mary not withstanding).

likewise, Napoleon would never have been able to win against the seventh coalition. even if he had won at waterloo... since even napoleon couldn't win a fight with a two on one disadvantage against the russians. ( and even thinking about this is already a step too far)

by all means, discuss the strategic/tactical advantages you would have gotten if a certain decision had fallen out in your favour/disadvantage, and the possibilities that those advantages could have been exploited.
that's a meaningful skill but arbitrarily saying "could the allies have won if the russians capitulated" is beyond ridiculous.

[Nithel]

Hypothesising combat estimates and extrapolating future possibilities is one of the primary functions of an Officer. If you can't see the value in developing that sort of skill...I don't know what to say.

There's a scale difference between a strategy plan that focuses on the small scale consequences of actions that every company uses and a long term prediction/eventualis on wordly scale like Amaryl said.

For example a company has to analyse decisions both past and future to try to determine the full effects. SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Oppertunities and Threats)analyses have existed for years. These are focused within the company itself and to some extent the stakeholders and it's immediate environment. (e.g.: what will the customers do? What will our competition do?)

But guessing factors outside on a much larger/different scale is guess-in-the-dark work. Especially when looking at the past, it mostly becomes an irrealis. Nowadays companies have millions of data hold up in databases to 'predict' future events. And even that's a very young movement that's still in it's child shoes and only somewhat accurate for small specific fields.

[Geneviève]

But you see what you're doing there is hypothesising your own alternatives with the information available to you. Precisely what you appear to denounce.

You seem to believe that everything is a forgone conclusion. That no matter what the change of circumstances the victor will always be the same. Which in short, is a joke.

And if those questions are 'beyond ridiculous' I suggest you bring your arguments to the affect to Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, they'll be delighted to hear they've been using ridiculous questions to prime their cadets critical thinking.

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

I believe there's a really old science fiction film were aliens attack in the middle of world war 2, but it's not a full invasion since the human factions actualy manage to stop the aliens somewhat. Oh, and the humans drug the aliens with ginger >.>

[Geneviève]

Sounds like a cheap version of War of the Worlds. The common cold, natural enemy of the unnatural enemy!

[Grufftoof]

Worldwar by Harry Turtledove is the book(s) fitting that description. Though I dunno if it was ever a film...

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

Worldwar by Harry Turtledove is the book(s) fitting that description. Though I dunno if it was ever a film...

>.> Should I actualy be surprised you knew that, and my bad, not a movie at all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwar
Prob mixing up with V, lizard aliens and all that.

[Ehrfürchtige Bennedict]

Worldwar by Harry Turtledove is the book(s) fitting that description. Though I dunno if it was ever a film...

>.> Should I actualy be surprised you knew that, and my bad, not a movie at all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwar
Prob mixing up with V, lizard aliens and all that.

Am I the only one who thinks that making the Worldwar books in to a movie would be a smashing hit?

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

Worldwar by Harry Turtledove is the book(s) fitting that description. Though I dunno if it was ever a film...

>.> Should I actualy be surprised you knew that, and my bad, not a movie at all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwar
Prob mixing up with V, lizard aliens and all that.

Am I the only one who thinks that making the Worldwar books in to a movie would be a smashing hit?

I'd see a strategy game in it.

[Halya]

After an 18 year long war in which Napoli destroyed over 60 English ships, including 24 of her carracks, and killed over 220,000 of her men, at the loss of 40,000 of our own, managing to make landfall in Ireland, salting the fields and burning the crops there before escaping the wrath of the royal navy, seizing her assets in Italy, and mass occupying her Greek and Anatolian holdings for a persistent fifteen years. Of bartering hard across the peace table on and off for five years, in which her nobility became progressively more indignant and terrified of the king's insistence to drive England in to the ground. Finally, finally, they ceded three provinces. Including two of my cores.

I fracking hate England.

Spoiler:

Having tag swapped to see what it took to make England finally admit defeat. I established they were at -3 stability (that much I knew), had over 30 war exhaustion (with a cap of 17), -100 prestige, 2,000 out of 101,000 manpower, nationalist rebels in both welsh provinces and every Irish province, as well as both their scottish provinces, and norwegian patriots in Iceland and the Orkneys. The remaining two provinces they kept in Anatolia were occupied by a 10k stack marching between the two, and they had three units of knights training, each with a build time of over three years. They had four loans running, minting at 100, and a yearly deficit (albeit not a large one, though set to grow looking at the rebels). Four English provinces were occupied by peasants and one by noblemen, and their lowest revolt chance was 16%

I wish the ai would realise when having a much larger fleet doesn't mean you can turn the war around.

[Nayan]

Alternative history stuff really make me very angry. I just go fucking mental. "That's bullshit, that never happened!"

How did you make it out of school alive? ...or do you sincerely think all you learned is the One and True Holy History? xD I bet every country has its own version, to cultivate national pride and social cohesion within its territory and social structure. Think about it.

Fiction doesn't piss me off, it's historical changes that do.

Well, those are not historical changes, it's pure fiction... Unless you'd tag "historical change" the fact I just watched England ally with Great Britain to fight off Holland. Yes, no typo. England and Great Britain. Because England (Coventry & Bristol) is not part of GB (the rest of .. well.. England xD). It's as much alteration of history as.. idk.. Bloodrayne. You don't think there was a vampire with great tits among Hitler's Nazis, do you? ^^ I know a lot of people love to tag it "alternative history", and to a degree I can see the point in the nickname, but I can also see the misinterpretations that can come off it. It's just a game, like Risk or Monopoly.

...then again, I don't care, cause I HATE YOU. (Much <3, miss ya ;()

even napoleon couldn't win a fight with a two on one disadvantage against the russians. ( and even thinking about this is already a step too far)

Spoiler:

It depends where, how, when, who. You can't predict with certainty what "would" happen "if", really. Sure, chances are your scenario would come true. But that's chances, not a pre-determined outcome.

PS: And... this is what happens to little Frenchies when they annoy me. >

Spoiler:

PPS:

I wish the ai would realise when having a much larger fleet doesn't mean you can turn the war around.

Amen to that >.>
I sometimes make do by either picking it off little by little (when/if I get the chance to), or striking when its morale is low (even 20 vs 60 can be devastating with low morale), otherwise just avoiding it like hell x.x

[Nithel]

I know history is a human science and involves a lot of guess work. In human sciences we'll always be held back by the evidence we find and the way we deduce said evidence. This can vary from beholder to beholder on unclear evidence and data.

I know, I was mainly just being silly. I am aware this is just another game that doesn't try to be more historically accurate than Dragon Age. It merely wants to be fun and allow people to play whatever they want instead of: "You can't unify Germany before 1870 because that didn't happen, please go back to start."

I was mostly lamentating on the 'alternative' take that people so eagerly love. I had a discussion with a friend yesterday. Books like alternative history and theories about how Diana 'really' got murdered sell better than the history books themselves. That stuff makes me somewhat sad.

Worst thing that ever happened was when a guy in economic class asked the professor: "What if toxic credits never had been handed out, would the crisis still have happened?" I think inside of that professor, me and everyone in that class something died

Spoiler:

[Chase - Esou]

Disgustingly off-topic. Can we have one thread in this forum for light-hearted discussion, please :<

[Nayan]

Slightly offtopic, yes. But.. "disgustingly" offtopic? You're too easily disgusted, my friend

Better have 3-4 posts in a 40-page thread that deal with an aspect of a game, than have 3-4 useless threads that end after the 3rd post - especially when one needs to dig through the 40-page thread to find the separate thread's context.

Back on topic, a friend linked me what they claim to be a sample of the graphics movement in the (long-awaited) World of Darkness MMO. Regardless if the two are indeed related.. Enjoy!

[Muzjhath]

Wow, quite realistic moving cloth to bodies that doesn't have unrealistic sized boobs one and all. Must say I approve.

[Morinth]

It's good to see properly proportioned females for once! I approve.

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