[A] Chapter of Holy Anethion on Trial!

Mordazan wrote:I think your first deduction is very sad. It basically says that there can be conflict in the alliance, because the strongest party will just beat down the others and consume them
I don't think so myself, I believe in diversity.

Well often with religious stuff, In the end people will start to believe the in the one with the most power and most cool stuff. History has shown us this plenty of times. Thus practically having all their members being consumed by the other religion. And if people did not want to convert. Often the most cruel methods were used to make them turn or kill all the opposition.

You might belive in Diversity but history says otherwise.

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:Not acknowledging them will get nobody -anywhere- and we cannot have some members of the council RP'ing with them and some not. Yes, the trial did not end well, yes the punishments were crap. But we cannot start ignoring them because of it.

This is how RP breaks down and withers away, so, before you decide to just ignore everything said and done by them, think about it.

This

well so long we can let go of this now.. it is to late to even change anything.

LMAO @ "zealotry" being a legally-defined crime. What's next, "racism"?

Sinnadrin wrote:LMAO @ "zealotry" being a legally-defined crime. What's next, "racism"?

*points at Scarlet Crusade*

And I doubt you even know half of what the Chapter did or were capable of... ;D

My two cents. I'm rather okay with most of this. But seing as I was not there at the trial, I'll talk about the sentence. The fine and compensation is great. I love having consequences that I can RP. Anything that creates RP is perfectly fine by me.

The weapons bit is a tad different, but it's okay. It basicly leaves us more defenseless than the average citizen (it would seem). Another thing we'll need to figure out in RP. It's certainly challenging. Got ganged up by a few gnomes with daggers yesterday and hadn't it been for a guildie randomly popping up, I'm sure my character would be kidnapped and done horrible.. horrible gnomish acts upon. Also I believe this is the one that made many people leave the guild following the trial, but that is to be expected when a guild hits a snag.

And the Bi-weekly reports are also a nice thing, it adds depth to what we do as a guild, and how we act towards officials. Great sentence, no complains there.

But the thing that really disappoints me is the preaching sentence. This really limits our RP capabilities. The RP that I have gotten the past few days has been nothing but people raging and making drama of say; me reciting a few lines from our books. It gets really tiring, the first RP I got without people raging at me was of course the hilarity that is Ildranor (and Gwenlyn). It was truly refreshing, but that's not the feeling I should get from casual RP. Casual Rp is supposed to be.. casual, normal. I don't say that it's supposed to be boring. But it seems to almost never be happening anymore.

This also limits our recruitment, if we're not meant to spam trade, of course. I can see how this new rule makes sense Icly. But OOCly, it's horrible. Without weapons or preaching(!) we have basicly no way to express ourselves as a guild. Also as I mentioned before, the instant I recite from one of our books people get the guards because they mean that we preach. It's not like we preached a lot from the start. We did not use /Y every waking moment or standing in the church going on for hours, several times a day. So this one is extremely harsh.

After getting this off my chest. This is strictly my opinion and what's done can't be undone. This is just how I experience the sentence and new rules. The ooc part is none of my business, since I wasn't there.


- Thonian.

You are not allowed to preach, Any form of expression a religion is not allowed by the Chapter. And to be honest it is one of the most heavy yet humane restrictions that could have been put onto the chapter.
Of course if this rule gets enforced. Which the guards hardly do. It would make the chapter redefine the way they act and Roleplay, It is a consequence of your previous actions as a guild. Accept them, or try to find a legal way around them. Which could spark more RP if done correctly.

But the chapter is allowed to preach, in places and times given to them by the church (and the church is supposed to give them that). There is a difference between restricted and prohibited.

Whom can we ask for that?

Rentarn or Fortesgue I'd imagine, both being Ministers of Faith on trial, and at least one of them being a known bishop (not sure if Rentarn is but eh).

To post or not to post.. It took me a long while to decide if it would do any good or not. Still unsure of the good or not part but here goes.

The Chapter as a guild have given me a lot of laughs, good times, bad times, tears and rage. But..
I can not deny the amount of good rp it has given me, other people, how much effort that has been put behind the guild as a whole.

So lets see here:

Kudos:

To the Chapter for mostly in my eyes giving me and a lot of others a lot of fun rp. Imanuel, Jehorious, Clay and many others ( I am sorry for not naming all of you gal’s and lad’s.

Why I left?

I left the Chapter as I did not feel I had much to do there anymore Ic wise. I was also a bit tired of some actions done by our members and others. But that’s it.

The punishment:

I find the punishment to be all good really. As I personally and Icly as Renhali Telenar former officer of the Chapter of Holy Anethion, would not icly or ooc’ly agree to that innocents should be punished for others doings. That’s the same to me ooc’ly as saying that all people believing in one religion or the other should be punished if -anyone- of the same religion turned fanatical and did something evil.

The reactions seen on this thread:

I know that frustration can be a bad thing. And how much you want to scream when - people are not punished as much as you think they should be. And to make everyone think a bit about their own rp, former rp, and punishments followed.. I wish to remind you all a little bit here and there and to do so, I will have to “point” some fingers at people and guilds I quite frankly enjoy a lot to rp with so please do not consider this a flame war attempt.

I started of on DBH rp wise with:
Spending 6-8 solid months 6-12 hours a day doing one thing only: Spying on everyone.
In those days which tacks back quite a few years I got my hands on nice stuff. Problem was they always seemed to “vanish” before a trial or the “evidence” was not good enough.

Primary stalked targets:

Any possibly known member, suspected member, affiliated or working with the Dark Sphere.
This also continued when the “dark sphere” was “abandoned” and changed name. And when they returned.

All members of the Old Town Syndicate more or less.

All members of the council. (From the very beginning)

Blazing Shields, The Chapter, The Hand of Nightmares. All other “bad” not “law abiding” guilds and
Every “famous” /”infamous” character. I will use two very charming, good rpers as an example here:
Our beloved Ireth/Melfeena and Odrade Heart.

I have no idea how many letters, testimonies, trials I have seen or heard of since the start of DBH, where the criminals/Those on trial either got:

Mildly punished - Evidence was not enough - Good evidence vanished - Trials did not happen.

Now in this situation a trial did happen. Like usual not all are happy with this outcome and I have little to no idea how the Chapter of Holy Anethion is run today. But.. I do know. That all the council members, all the rpers who have been involved in matters of law or… Being entirely against the law/criminals/cultists. Do know deep down that this is not the first time that a trial has been in most eyes - to soft.

A perfect example:

Once upon a time a woman named Roveena roamed the streets of Stormwind. A very famous woman she was indeed. I could spend hours talking of Roveena (sorry if I misspelled it wrong). Icly I hated Roveena more than anything else except for perhaps Etarios and another long gone Warlock sphere member that I never recall the name of. I hated them both more than any of the actual leaders of the sphere but topping this list would be Andrek. ( Added note: Despite the frustration against them, considering all the focus I had on these people, its surely obvious I admired their skills of never actually truly getting caught?^^)

And why did I hate them Icly? Because despite trials ( in this case Roveena’s). It did not go as I hoped and I had worked hard for that and she was indeed a very evil vicious woman. Which is why I ooc’ly loved the sphere. Oocly I was however deeply from time to time overly frustrated over the actual reasonably lack of evidence against them except from statements/testimonies.

I still love the concept of the sphere. And I never found myself -hating- the sphere ooc’ly. I think over the years that I have actually ooc’ly disliked 1 member.. And that means that such a guild. Despite the frustration, agony that follows with never really catching them.. Means one thing only. The concept is darn good. The roleplayers of that guild has been bloody awesome.

Do you feel I have gone off topic now? I assure you I have not.

The Chapter of Holy Anethion is based on a very good concept. The problem is: It does not fit in with the laws.. Ohh.. But how many guilds does?

Should we all lay down and rage about how *cough sorry here I do adore you both in your own special way* How Jayse and Analeigh, don’t get caught?
Should not they have been executed long ago? Should not x amount of council members in the now and the past have been removed from their positions long ago? Should not rumours of this and that about bishops, priests and goody tissue guilds been enough to have more or less 90 percent of them being removed from Stormwind for good? And should not most of them be dead and not miraculously be alive still? ^^

So instead of pointing fingers here people, look at all the good sides of having rp guilds that can survive in their own ways through storms of rage..

How boring was it not on DBH when there was basically - no evil guilds left? - . How many of you did not long for the return of The Dark Sphere or some new challenge to work against? How many of you whined about that guild, or the other evil guilds then longed for them when they turned silent, disbanded or simply quit? I know I did. I also know how much hard work it is to actually keep an evil guild up and how it feels to "kill the guild off" because the majority of good people, wants them gone due to Ic realism. I also know how it feels to be that good guy and want them gone. Which proves, one never gets fully pleased regardlessly so be happy with what you got and do the best out of it?^^


For what is good when there is no evil? And how many didn’t “break” their characters ways to get something to do in the end? Did you all go around drinking tea, reading books, enjoying peace?

I doubt you all did for too long.

Like I stated further up I do not know how the Chapter is run these days. What I do know is this:

There has been many times, many guilds, many councils (as their members have changed now and then) who could have and if seen realistically -should have- been finished off many a time.

So why all this rage about this time? What about all the others?

If we should learn anything from this, it would be possibly to not look at the situation but the greater picture. We do want people to die, to be punished hard now and then. But do we truly want them gone? All gone? The answer is usually no… In the end we will regret it and miss most of them.

Are the members of the Chapter of Holy Anethion today, all individuals in a major degree, more than half of the guild so incompetent roleplayers that the guild in total should be ignored? Or is this just a - heat of the moment thing? Have you all old roleplayers, natives of DBH forgot how it was to be new?
How to make mistakes, how to forgive and give new chances?

Have anyone of you who speaks of not ruining the guild but not really at all be involved with it, in it, or against it.. Looked back on yourself, your own rp history?

Have you all looked and truly asked yourself these questions? What have - You- Done to help their roleplay to be on what -you- consider to be - the right track?

I am not stating here that: Putting on a potion, using a fail costume and shooting people in public is alright. I am not saying that they do nothing wrong and have done nothing wrong. As that would be all lying.

What I am saying is: What they have done. Which I do - know- is a lot less than what people actually do think.. IS what they have done, what I have done and others have.

But.. I also do know that there is - a lot - of people some posting and some not posting in this thread who… By Stormwind laws, now or in the past, despite the factor of evidence should have been executed long ago, some even so many times that I can not count it. Some should have lost their positions. Some should even in my eyes to some extent have deleted or renamed their chars many a times over. But what does that help anyone?

Now I am not a member of the chapter nor am I on trial at the time being. What I wanted with this thread is for people to open their eyes a bit. Not in defence of the Chapter. But simply to wake people up.

I am no better, you are no better. We are so many of us guilty in so many of these charges, guilty for not following the law, guilty for not finding enough evidence.

So please all. Look at yourselves then… Start throwing stones. Give them the fresh new start this was meant to be. Consider your own character. Should it be allowed to live? Truly? If so let it. Should you be a better man or woman and step down from a high horse and actually admit that, hey… I was once not better myself or.. Wait.. I should be dead long ago.. Or someone once showed me the right path perhaps I should do so to.


With all of this spam. I hope this is possibly the last post in a very long thread. If not.. I wish its filled with - actual possible solutions to this problem - actual constructiveness on how they can - improve.-

If this thread does go on with - why the chapter is so wrong and why this punishment is all so not god enough- then don’t post. We have all read it. Make a new thread on how you consider punishments should be instead, as this as far as I have read ( which is all the posts) is more of a whining, this is wrong thread then giving any solution to the problem or ways to improve.

-Renhali Telenar.

PS. The more trials the better. It is hard work. And kudos to all who did this, I am actually despite the negativity in this thread sad that I missed it. I should check the forums a lot more than I do these days. And.. Keep in mind people. "Not all love the way you rp, not all will agree with your ways. Sometimes its wise to listen, adjust a bit to the bigger picture and sometimes it is more wise to just.. Simply ignore the wines and have a good time. The people who did this event, on both sides did put a lot of effort into it. Respect their time. Waisting peoples time is to show little to no respect. It is a game yes, but its also real life people putting their precious hours behind the rp you took part in that day.. Keep that in mind. And have a nice evening. DS.

Well, as I said. I was not there at the trial and I understood it like we could not preach -at all.- But this is fine.

Also Renhali, I would like to thank you for everything you have done for the Chapter since you joined. You have truly helped the guild evolve.

-Thonian.

I did not do as much as I could have and perhaps should have but thank you nonethenless Thonian^_^ My time in the Chapter was fun. And if people are too keen on a more harsh punishment I guess I can redo Renhali and take the burden of all the former stuff on my shoulders. I do not mind that at all in fact it could be very amusing.

Not needed.

Jehorius wrote:Not needed.

This

The matter is pretty much done with. It's one of those situations where it will never be truly resolved, no matter how much I hoped it would be when this discussion first broke out. Some people are fine, some are displeased and some simply do not care.

That's something to be accepted by all sides, end of.

And for the record.. Jayse takes a shit kicking.

Of course Jayse does, he is a big guy^^

Tzemenya wrote:[i] Once upon a time a woman named Roveena roamed the streets of Stormwind. A very famous woman she was indeed. I could spend hours talking of Roveena (sorry if I misspelled it wrong). Icly I hated Roveena more than anything else except for perhaps Etarios and another long gone Warlock sphere member that I never recall the name of. I hated them both more than any of the actual leaders of the sphere but topping this list would be Andrek.

That would be Rovena Ravenblood, my Warlock in the Sphere before I got hooked on Dwarfyness. Maybe I may bring her back in Cata.